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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 24, 2006 - 02:08am PT
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On the wall, you have a rope and a harness, single links that you have to depend on, that don't have a backup. Everything else is redundant, or should be.
But, sometimes, you have to depend on another single piece: a Gri-Gri.
Has there ever been a Gri-Gri failure?
I'm not worried about the carabiner that clips it in. I use a stainless monster locker, so I figure that is self-redundant. I know Tom broke his locker to his Gri on an Eagle's Way solo, but that was an aluminum locker, probably side-loaded (he tied back-up knots, and walked away).
But, what about the Gri device itself? Has it ever failed?
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Blumsky
Trad climber
Winston-Salem
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Oct 24, 2006 - 03:57am PT
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yes, sort of. there is a PDF of the accident report somewhere online, but i can not find it right now.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 24, 2006 - 07:54am PT
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Can you recap the accident senor stich?
As far as a grigri blowing apart, I've never heard of such a thing. But as far as a grigri failing to lock up and climbers falling - it happens all the time. Seen it happen with my own two eyes. I posted a pdf a while back that talked about that. Is that they pdf someone mentioned? If so, I'll try and find it.
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Blumsky
Trad climber
Winston-Salem
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:10am PT
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the gri gri basically severed the rope. sort of. the accident report is very inconclusive, and very strange. no, it is not the PDF you are thinking of, i found that one last night. i wish i could find the one i am looking for.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:13am PT
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I've not seen that. Hope you can locate it.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:21am PT
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I rememebr reading about the rope/gri-gri thing online. Probably could find it with some searching through rc.com...if you can get on the stupid site, anyway.
Can't rememebr much with the details, but wasn't it something like rock grit had accumulated in the camming parts of the gri-gri, and when the rope ran through, under lock off, that was how the rope shredded?
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Blumsky
Trad climber
Winston-Salem
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:23am PT
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that was what they thought, but they had a lot of trouble reproducing it in a lab . . . i looked a bit on RC and google for the accident report but got tired of digging
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:33am PT
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Would it really matter if there had been a failure?
Would a better question be "Under what conditions would a gri-gri be the weakest link in a protection system?"
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Blumsky
Trad climber
Winston-Salem
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Oct 24, 2006 - 08:57am PT
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oh, yay, let's just rehash all the bullsh!t about how a gri gri is somehow a weaker link in the protection system than any other belay device. w00t!
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TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 24, 2006 - 09:11am PT
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Whoa! I did not say it ever would be... :-) We do not wear two harnesses, right? jeeze.
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Blumsky
Trad climber
Winston-Salem
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Oct 24, 2006 - 09:14am PT
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You don't wear two harnesses? that is not very safe!
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Oct 24, 2006 - 09:59am PT
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Back when I was on rc.com, I was in the middle of the discussion of this accident. The general conclusion seemed to be that the most likely scenario was that sharp bits of gravel had gotten sucked into the gri-gri and shredded the rope under tension. But they had difficulty reproducing this in tests, and the way the gri-gri was set up was not recommended by Petzl.
As for an outright failure of a gri-gri when used correctly, not heard of it happening. Just don't thread them backwards. That will cause problems.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Oct 24, 2006 - 10:07am PT
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What do folks usually use to attach to a Gri-Gri when rope-soloing? I thought it was mentioned that Maillon Rapide steel screw closed links were mostly used. Below is a link to a page of these items. Which one?
http://www.karstsports.com/maillonrapide.html
Thanks!
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morse
Trad climber
CT
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Oct 24, 2006 - 10:55am PT
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I have a high-level of confidence in the Gri-Gri in situations when the load is dynamic.
Some friends of mine were using a Gri-Gri to as a releasable load device to tension a Tyrolian Traverse and put too much force on it (There was no more stretch in the rope at this point). The device didn't fail catastrophically (In other words you would have survived the fall if you were climbing), but the rope was so jammed by the cam against the interior wall of the Gri-Gri they ended up cutting it out,when they were done and the Gri-Gri showed bulging/deformation sideways.
If you had somehow developed similar forces in a fall while big-wall soloing, you probably would have had to whack the hell out of the cam with your hammer to free the rope, and you would have a lot less confidence in the device after that because of the bulging sidewall.
Bottom line: The Gri-Gri is really quite strong and there is probably much more hassle to be caused by the rope getting seriously jammed than other concerns.
For my part, I am trying to find out about the EDDY belay device made by Edelrid and if it would be suitable for big wall soloing. The downside is it's heavier and more expensive than a Gri-Gri. The plus is it has enhanced safety features and is good on 9-11 mm ropes where the Gri-Gri is only rated for 10-11 mm ropes.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Oct 24, 2006 - 02:03pm PT
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My friend took a hard fall onto the anchor self belaying with a gri-gri on El Cap. Pretty much a factor 2.
The cam sort-of over rotated on the rope. The rope was totaly pinned and we had to beat on it with a hammer to get the cam to unlock.
Afterwards the rope had a serious dead spot where it was pinched by the gri-gri.
I still use the gri-gri for soloing though!
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Amelia Rudolph
Trad climber
Kensington
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Oct 24, 2006 - 02:22pm PT
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As yet, I have never heard of a GriGri failing. Like any other devise, operator error is the most likely way for the equipment not to work correctly. The TWO most important checks with the GriGri are: 1)That the carabiner is through BOTH plates (the GriGri locks and functions even with only one plate clipped, but the rope is NOT secured inside the devise and can fall out. 2) That the GriGri is on in the correct direction-with the "climber" picture facing the anchor. Triple check! your life is worth it.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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Oct 25, 2006 - 12:00am PT
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Given the recent fatality in Yos, you might wait a few days and repost.
Yes, I've read one very sketchy report. Gym climber. Ropes in. Falls. Gri-gri doesn't catch. No specifics on rope width (ie below 10mm, perhaps a 9.2mm?, was it new/slick?). No specifics on what belayer did - rope burns on hands? I'm under the impression that a brand new rope thinner than 10mm may not generate enough friction to guarantee the gri-gri will lock. Or lock quickly enough.
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JAK
climber
The Souf
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Oct 25, 2006 - 12:32am PT
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Still sounds like operator error in that gym accident. The Gri Gri still functions just fine as a standard tube-style belay device in the event that the cam doesn't catch. As long as there's decent tail tension, the belayer should get yanked off their feet well before the rope slips, cam or no cam.
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bomber pro
Trad climber
australia
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Oct 25, 2006 - 12:50am PT
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If the belayer were to pull down in a moment of panic, on the wrong side of the rope ie the climbers side runing up the climb, then the gri gri does'nt lock causing burns to the hands of the belayer ,they then release the rope because of the pain ,but by then the rope can travell a hell of a long way , this hapened to me at the second clip of a sport route ,I was pulling up rope for the clip and my belayer was feeding up rope by disengaging the locking cam ,(right hand) and feeding up rope (left hand), my foot smear blew and at that moment the hand that was on the rope was the one they tried to hold onto, bad burns for my partner, and I got decked,I am a mountain guide so was ok (we get taught to bounce) and my belayer learned how not to belay, but some other things that fail the failsafes are belaying from the harness when seated on a ladge ,the cam is prevented from actuating by bieng loaded onto the ledge, the same goes for small roofs at belt hieght on a belay stance,
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morse
Trad climber
CT
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Just saw the MASTERS OF STONE V video. It looks like Dan Osman was using a GriGri as an important part of his system for his monster roped jumps off of Leaning Tower and out of tree platforms, etc. That's pretty reassuring to watch, if you are thinking of using a GriGri for self-belay. The only thing I ever heard was potentially sketchy about the GriGri for soloing is the sort of blade like edge that is part of the cam assembly, which is apparent when the device is weighted.
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