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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 30, 2015 - 09:42am PT
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I have only used the 3/8 drill bits in a standard Petzl hand drill with a Yosemite hammer. My goal is to have a lighter 'just in case' set up to hand drill quarter inchers (I don't even know if these things are properly called rivets or bolts!). I noticed that bringing my set up is a lot of weight to haul, because I don't have to place many bolts even on long face routes. Longer drill times results in longer runouts too. If the route turns out to be something that other people should climb, I would likely go back and replace the shorties with a 3/8 stainless steel bolt. Since I am a complete noob regarding the subject, I was wondering if someone could answer a few questions...
1) Is there a different hand drill I should use (lighter is a plus, drill faster is a plus too!), or the one I have is good enough? It is heavy and bulky IMO.
2) Drill bit preference?
3) I heard that when you use 1/4"ers you should not use stainless steel?
Anyone has a preferred source to buy those? Cheap/quality/light=good!
Any recommendations to cut weight and drill quicker holes is appreciated. It is for 'just in case' backcountry use. Welcome to link to your preferred drill bits, hammers, rivets and hand drills to make it easier for me. Or link to reading I should do to further learn about the subject. I am more of a hands on and visual learner though. I like to see how things work and do it, to understand. Reading a lot does not usually help...
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:43am PT
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Get a 1/4 speed steel drill extension from the hardware store and cut it to the length you want. Cheap, works ok...
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:46am PT
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Vitals...
Get a hold of "Two Shoes" cus he may just have some older ones in his supply of goodies. If not, he knows a great machinist/climber that will make you one. The same machinist that made the three of mine. 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" some 16 or so years ago.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:49am PT
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Yer gonna die!
%^)
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Sep 30, 2015 - 10:40am PT
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I used to make these little holders for A-Taper bits. About as small as a holder can be. Not many people want them but some friends have them and use them. I only seem to have one left but they are pretty easy to make. Made from 3/4" hex 4140 steel and hardened. The drift pin for removing the bit is made from a grade 8 bolt. A-Taper bits aren't common but I think Relton still sells them. A-Taper bits can usually be found on Ebay.
I also have boxes of 1/4" anchors. I don't know if you can get hangers but Moses was making them for awhile. I have some I made from stainless steel.
I consider 1/4" to be temporary.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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Banquo, if you have a complete small set up like that I can buy, let me know please. This is exactly what I would like and put it to good use, hopefully.
(appropriate hand drill, drill bit(s), bolts and hangers. And smaller hammer of choice advice? I know you test these things!)
xxvitaliyxx@yahoo.com
I live in the Bay Area. Can travel to pick it up. No hurry here, I am preparing for the next summer :)
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Sep 30, 2015 - 12:53pm PT
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Sounds like there are two people who might want one. I could make a few up if people want to offer something for them. Message me.
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The Alpine
climber
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Sep 30, 2015 - 12:57pm PT
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Sounds like there are two people who might want one. I could make a few up if people want to offer something for them. Message me.
REWARD
Get Vitaly a lightweight small drill setup and he'll let you tag along on one of his epics next year!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 30, 2015 - 01:05pm PT
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You can use a regular hand drill (like the rocpec) and just buy a 1/4" SDS bit, the side that goes into the drill will be the same size.
Now where can you buy 1/4" bolts and which hangers work with them?
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 30, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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The Petzl Rocpec is by far the lightest drill particularly when wrenches/drift pins are taken into account (it needs none). Get (or make) a shorter, lightweight hammer (unless you're planning on using a lot of pitons too). Fixe sells 1/4" buttonheads (actually looks like they are out of stock), they are also available various places, you want the 1/4 x 1.25" and/or 1.5" of these: http://www.powers.com/product_03601.php.
I've found that considering the (huge) time and effort to get back to long high stuff, it's better to just use 3/8" off the bat. 1/4" are better for desperate stances on "cragging" routes where you can easily return to replace the bolts.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 30, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
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True, but every stance feels pretty desperate after about 20 min of no hands! :)
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Sep 30, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
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Frankly, I don't think you will save that much weight going from 3/8" to 1/4" especially if, as you say in your OP, that you are only going to use this setup for emergencies. The hangers weigh the same and so does the drill holder(as Greg Barnes said, the Petzl RocPec is the lightest drill out there and you can get 1/4" SDS bits for it).
You will save a bit of weight on the bolts, but if you are only carrying a few is it worth leaving a 1//4" bolt for others to find especially if you are hoping that others will repeat your routes! It doesn't make sense for the situation you are describing.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Sep 30, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
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^^^^^ I'm guessing he's trying to save some effort and time on the drilling from a desperate spot as a last resort. Maybe not though, could be weight.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Sep 30, 2015 - 06:45pm PT
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This got me thinking about how small an SDS holder could be. The absolute minimum is a striking surface that attaches to the bit. So, I went down to the garage and made one. Hardened 4140 steel, nylon patch set screws that shouldn't vibrate loose and an Allen key to change bits. I would prefer a no tool bit change but compromises must be made. I see this as an emergency use type deal. It is only 2" long and with the Allen key weighs 105 grams or 3.7 ounces - about half what a Rocpec weighs. Will fit any SDS Plus bit. I could drill holes in it and make it even lighter. Took about 30 minutes to make not counting the time it spent soaking in the heat. If I made another, I would move the set screws a little.
Shown with a 1/4" SDS Plus bit.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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Sep 30, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
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This is minimalist so no grips or sleeves. Knuckle busting only.
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johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
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Sep 30, 2015 - 07:34pm PT
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That looks identical to a speed steel extension
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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Sep 30, 2015 - 08:22pm PT
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PM me if still interested. I have an old Rawl 1/4" hand drill and bolts.
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