Deleted question on bolt chopping

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johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 29, 2015 - 09:26pm PT
Kelsey why did you nuke your thread about your repeated retro bolting? The "bolt chopping question" thread.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2015 - 09:30pm PT
Was it this?



Sep 29, 2015 - 07:47pm PT
"I only use ASCA gear for rebolting so I'm not putting crap bolts in". This is from Kelsey today.

This is from the ASCA's homepage...

"The amount of protection on a climb is traditionally determined by the first to climb the route, and while climbing is a fairly anarchistic pursuit, the one revered tradition is that later climbers never add additional fixed protection to an existing route. In other words, the addition of bolts or pitons to existing routes is not tolerated unless the first person to do the route adds the bolts to their own route".


The ASCA supplied Kelsey with bolts after his intentional retro bolting of Hocus Pocus and Splat Button several years ago. Something about how he wouldn't do it again... We'll hear we are again. Go figure...

Is the ASCA still supplying him with bolts/hardware?

Is, or has, the ASCA supplied his partner Kristopher Klein with bolts/hardware?

Oddly enough the Alaska section on the ASCA site is down

Edit
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:37pm PT
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:56pm PT
The deleted thread, "Bolt Chopping Question", is at http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1397810&tn=0&mr=0

minus the 1st post, which I'm pasting below from Google's cache:



Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage

Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 31, 2011 - 01:52am PT

So today was nice balmy 23 degrees but the sun was out and that warms the spirit. I grabbed my bag of goodies and proceeded to replace 16 bolts along the Seward Highway. I came across this one though that just wouldn't come out!! I worked on it for about 20 minutes. I was wondering what the best way is to actually chop a bolt? Especially something easy to carry.

Oh and one of those bolts today I reached up yanked on the webbing and it came out of the rock. The second one took two hits with a hammer and it was out. They were an anchor system that I had just lowered and then reclimbed on. Ewww....
Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
It's because you're wrong and I don't want to support your ranting any longer. You have a Problem with me then bring it to me in person.
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:40pm PT
Chelsea
You are wrong
Its sad that you don't even see it
I hope you will learn by continuing to immerse yourself in the culture
Someday, I hope you understand
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2015 - 10:40pm PT


"We didn't put it up as an alternate start but it can be used as one by running it out on unprotected ground. How many climbs have alternate starts?"

Here you are admitting to adding a retro bolted alternate start. It's also not unprotected anymore... You go right past the bolt in your photo..

"It makes it a more appetizing climb that will probably see a lot more traffic at this point".

Here's Kelsey admitting to them being retro bolts again.

"The first bolt does look like it could be on or near the route".

These are the words right out of your mouth.

Explain how these aren't retro bolts.

Gotta have pictures...

Retro bolts

Per retro bolts
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:50pm PT
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:54pm PT
Prezwoodz

climber
Anchorage

Sep 29, 2015 - 10:23pm PT
It's because you're wrong and I don't want to support your ranting any longer. You have a Problem with me then bring it to me in person.

I have a real big problem with people possibly inappropriately utilizing ASCA material for their personal climbing endeavors.

I was one of those folks that spent over ten years rebolting (for the ASCA) well over 500 routes throughout the Southwest and CA.

So... John Kelley, thanks for bringing this to the attention of us all.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 11:10pm PT
Oddly enough the Alaska section on the ASCA site is down

From May 2013 - copy and paste the entire link below..it won't link in ST:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130523223330/http://www.safeclimbing.org/areas/alaska/seward_highway.htm

edit: screenshot from link

johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2015 - 06:38am PT
Yeah that's part of it but there's more now...

This is at least the third line Kelsey Gay has knowing and intentionally retro bolted.

The ASCA continued to supply him with bolts after knowing that Splat Button and Hocus Pocus had been retro bolted.

Kelsey spewed his usual bs, basically anything to justify his actions. "I'll get permission from the FA team when I find them, it's only 5 bolts"...

Here we are only a few years later and nothing's changed. It's clear that the Lemming Ranch has been retro bolted. Same bs justifications as the last time. The exact same bs.

What's the ASCA's part in this?

Is he still bring given bolts? Is his retro bolting partner Kristopher Klein receiving ASCA bolts? Is Lang Dommelen receiving ASCA bolts? Lang told me that he and some other received the last batch... How many ASCA bolts have been sent up here?

I don't and never have had any problem with bolts being replaced... However seems to me that the ASCA recipients, in the ANC area, are either actively retro bolting or actively and publicly supporting it. Prove me wrong... This isn't the first time it's happened here...

While I believe the ASCA means well something needs to change.

jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:08am PT
Just go buy your own bolts and hangers under the radar problem solved, and don't spew about on line. I don't need the ASCA ever..
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:16am PT
You can take all the HUGE wippers you like on my shot out the boner bolts..lol!! SS 5 piece 8x3/4" LONG Boner bolts. Burchy enter Wipper ville.

Get a good job you can buy all that and more. I buy 2 or 3 hundred at a time.. ASCA is not needed ever. I know a few folks that get those bolts and do no route re-bolting. Just burning them up on new routes. Negating the real purpose.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:18am PT
Dear John,

You're a jerk, period.

You have beef? Fine. But maybe you two should meet and talk in person to sort it out, as Kelsey has suggested.

Twisting his name to Gay, as if there is something inherently wrong with being gay? That's just subtle hate speak that only a true dickhead would use. We live in a more evolved time, man. Catch up.

You climb difficult lines, right? Take that advanced problem solving skill to the real world and you'll be getting somewhere.

Meet with the man, stop talking trash online or all you'll be met with are trashy replies.

Thanks in advance,
Brandon Mayo
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:18am PT
8x3/4"

3 X 1/2" are just as strong shear wise and half the price.



Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....
jeff constine

Trad climber
Ao Namao
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:21am PT
U know Im joking Chief.
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:24am PT
I am too. ;>


I got all my personally placed bolts at Wal-Mart & Sears.


GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:33am PT
I buy 2 or 3 hundred at a time..

That's enough for at least 100 routes in So Cal...
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:37am PT
Very cool looking rock!

I am ignorant to this, but just curious, are those not two separate lines in the photo with the yellow line leading to the flaring crack and the one the guy is climbing on?
Or did you place bolts on the line which once took gear?
Confused as to the issue here.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Sep 30, 2015 - 08:48am PT
Red Heads from Ace Hardware okay for FA?

Easy for ASCA to replace later. ;-)


----End Troll



Monster 8 x 3/8 bolts ridiculous unless used as TR, belay or major crux move on soft stone that is going to get hammered by repeated falls.

IMO heavy hardware on low angle moderate to easy where repeated falls are highly unlikely is to heavy handed. These are back-up placements that will rarely if ever see a fall.

People updating routes or putting up new ones in areas meant to be repeated should use environmental wisdom and craftsmanship.


ASCA should create a course and a handbook. It could be a revenue stream and help cut down on rebolting costs in the long run. Retailers should require a ASCA bolting card to sell hardware.

Guys like Jeff or the Chief could take an on line test in 10 minutes to get their card.
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