Online Etiquette when is comes to fatalities/accidents

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Heisenberg

Trad climber
RV, middle of Nowehere
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 29, 2015 - 05:13pm PT
Something this forum should read. Particularly because in this forum you all LOVE to post about BASE/skydiving injuries and fatalities.

MAYBE next time you will think about what your type about someone's loved one.

http://womanwidowfriend.com/2015/08/13/surviving-death-online/

rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Sep 29, 2015 - 05:27pm PT
"Online etiquette" is an oxymoron.

That said, I've seen quite a few accident threads in which a person close to the victim has eventually logged on an contributed themselves, indicating that not everyone is traumatized by circulated information. To this I might add that it can be a tremendous burden for a grieving person to notify everyone who ought to know, and some of that burden can be alleviated by sites like this one.

As for social media, that is another story and I'm not familiar enough with it to have any kind of opinion.

Behaving sensitively and decently in posting reactions to tragedies ought not to be hard in principle, but we have plenty of evidence that such an expectation cannot be taken for granted. Unfortunately, the folks most in need of this message are likely to be the least receptive.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Sep 29, 2015 - 06:48pm PT
Not really a very good article. The article applies to people directly associated with the victim and family, and can be summed up by saying "use common sense when using social media". I think news of fatalities are handled pretty well here on ST. Sure, people armchair quarterback way ahead of any official news, and that could be construed as disrespect to the deceased.
couchmaster

climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:10pm PT



GREAT writing. End point, we SUCK. SUCK BIG. EVERY DAMNED ONE OF US. YOU, ME. most of us anyway. So much pain has already accrued to the family....crap, don't add more. Just Shut the F up is their point, and it's a good one. Call a relative and if you don't get through leave a supportive message and otherwise STFU and keep speculation and random thoughts about it to oneself and off the internet.

Thanks for the read. COMPUTERS can be such bullshit at times.
c wilmot

climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
I think death is something culturally defined. What some might see as offensive could to others be perfectly normal. I personally dont care if my corpse is used to film a "weekend at bernies" as I wont be around to complain. Other people wont even donate their organs. Got me
I can see why many would find comments online offensive but if you go looking for that sort of thing, can you really be upset about finding it?
Negative comments are the norm online.
At least most of the comments about accidents on here are informed and meant to prevent further tragedy by introspecting on what went wrong

zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
I met a guy once who reported being told this:

There is no need for us to say anything about others. There is no need for you or for me to regard other's actions in our thoughts one way or another. The worst thing we can do is to force people to agree with us. I mean that we shouldn't try to impose our will when people don't behave the way we want them to. The worst thing one can do is to confront human beings bluntly. A warrior proceeds strategically. If one wants to stop our fellow men one must always be outside the circle that presses them. That way one can always direct the pressure.

also,

To help you lose self-importance talk to little plants. It doesn't matter what you say to a plant, what's important is the feeling of liking it, and treating it as an equal.
c wilmot

climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
I meant that your reaction to death often has to do with the way you have been subconsciously conditioned to react. Some cultures mourn death, some celebrate the life lived. Heck some cultures even consumed their dead as a part of the process
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:30pm PT
This too:

Look at me, I have no doubts or remorse. Everything I do is my decision and my responsibility. The simplest thing I do, to take you for a walk in the desert for instance, may very well mean my death. Death is stalking me. Therefore, I have no room for doubts or remorse. If I have to die as a result of taking you for a walk, then I must die.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:41pm PT
I think Cervantes covered this quite adequately 400 years ago.
Juan Maderita

Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:49pm PT
Reilly,
If you're referring to zBrown's quotes, more like Castaneda 40 years ago.
Dude was hittin' the peyote.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 07:57pm PT
Uh, Juan, I was thinking more along the lines of tilting at windmills, como no?
Juan Maderita

Trad climber
"OBcean" San Diego, CA
Sep 29, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
Reilly,
Okay. The Carlos Castenada quotes were interesting. It's been a few decades since I've read Teachings of Don Juan, et al.
zBrown

Ice climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 08:04pm PT
Well I never met a windmill I didn't like, though never did I meet Cervantes.

However, I did meet Carlos, but he is actually quoting Don Juan, who may or may not have existed.

Good advice, but it's your five centavos.

Orale.
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Sep 29, 2015 - 08:12pm PT
God I hate that word.. "Accident".


No such thing.


Things JUST DON'T HAPPEN. Somewhere along the chain of events in MOST extreme sports major injury/fatality incidents, there was some human decision/action/error involved.

Thus it was NOT an "Accident". It was an Incident.

The ONLY way that the rest of that disciplines community can learn from the Incident and prevent it from possibly occurring again, is to debrief the facts of the event as soon as possible, review them without any emotions and find what went wrong etc. Then disseminate the final analysis asap while all the facts are fresh in every ones minds.

Unfortunately, I learned this very beneficial protocol during my 24 or so years in the Navy and being very well versed in and part of Incident Review Debriefs and Boards for well over 36 fatal incidents. 21 of which I was directly involved with in one way or another.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:08pm PT
Opinions are like anuses.

Oh, and lest that statement slip into a self-referential morass, that statement was NOT, repeat NOT a mere opinion.

People generally should wipe and wash more often, particularly prior to posting, particularly when posting about somebody else's misfortune the whole story of which will almost never be known.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:14pm PT
It happens. LOL... sue me.
WBraun

climber
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:18pm PT
I've witnessed a lot of death over the years ... a lot.

Lots deceased of bodies passed thru here.

And with those are the grieving family members.

Best not to say anything or just give condolences.

Why upset people we don't even know over this ......

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Sep 29, 2015 - 09:46pm PT
Online Etiquette
... is a non sequitur.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:00pm PT
There is no need for us to say anything about others. There is no need for you or for me to regard other's actions in our thoughts one way or another. The worst thing we can do is to force people to agree with us. I mean that we shouldn't try to impose our will when people don't behave the way we want them to. The worst thing one can do is to confront human beings bluntly. A warrior proceeds strategically. If one wants to stop our fellow men one must always be outside the circle that presses them. That way one can always direct the pressure.

It is hard to imagine any advice that is as wrong as this.

Ventilating is very important in dealing with loss. The above advice, which used to be rampant in military circles (and probably still is) is the perfect setup not to deal with PTSD. It is the path that leads to so many suicides, because people internalize, instead of talking it out, getting help.
The Chief

climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
Sep 29, 2015 - 10:19pm PT
So the guy who shot Osama should have followed protocol and not written a dreary book ?

Apples OR Oranges....Jim?

"Death... It Happens"


If the community sticks to the facts of the actual event, leaves out the personalizing and emotion/s, analyzes what was the actual cause, come up with a beneficial solution so that the event/behavior can be prevented in the future and done so asap, then the incident has not gone in vein.

EDIT:

The cause just may be a major flaw/deficiency in the material/equipment that needs immediate attention/action so as not to have it occur again in the very near future.

The damn Turkey below killed my Bos'n who was standing seven or so feet directly in front of me. The same projectile that terminated him, went into my right gut and tore a hole in me taking out my Gall Bladder and 2mm portion of my Liver. I spent ten days in ICU.

ALL F-14's were immediately grounded, and a failing critical attaching 6" X 9/16" bolt was found to be the culprit. All F-14's had to have this bolt replaced throughout the NAVIAR system before they were released for flight. That was accomplished in 5 days after the incident. The fact of what the consequences were of that failing bolt, my Bos'n and I, were pretty much a moot issue.

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