Route names are proper nouns; use of definite article 'the'

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Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Topic Author's Original Post - May 18, 2015 - 11:14am PT

Since all routes are unique, a climbing route name is a proper noun.

In particular, when a proper noun is used as an abstract reference to something about the climb or something the climb's name references, it creates a further unique aspect.

For example, a line I want to do could be called

Black Watch

or

The Black Watch

In this case I'm noting a reference to wearing the Black and GoT.

But even without the show's reference, we would not truncate The Black Watch down to Black Watch if the FA'ist deliberately labeled it with the definite article.

Discuss...

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 11:20am PT

Zactly!

apogee

climber

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

May 18, 2015 - 11:26am PT

'Black Watch' sounds like an action statement, as though one is looking for black (whatever that might mean)

Whereas 'The Black Watch' sounds like a very dark timekeeping device.

Reeotch

climber

4 Corners Area

May 18, 2015 - 11:27am PT

I'm all about the THE.

Yeah, right, classic.

Not for all routes: Have you done "Do or Fly", or have you done "The Do or Fly", the latter sounds like something a non-english speaker would say.

But thats ok, we have free speech on "the supertopo".

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

May 18, 2015 - 11:29am PT

The Mungeclimber and tHe eKat have spoken. The climbs on The El Cap are to be preceded by the definite article.

Now, let's move on to punctuation. First thing we do is kill all the apostrophe misusers. Then we can start work on hyphenation.

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2015 - 11:31am PT

Ghost, whatever, do, you, mean?

rbord

Boulder climber

atlanta

May 18, 2015 - 11:41am PT

We're with you!

If it's a proper noun, isn't, the definitive article "the', 'The"?

What's the Black? Do you mean The Black?

stunewberry

Trad climber

Spokane, WA

May 18, 2015 - 11:45am PT

The Lembert Dome. 'Nuf said. Delete this thread, now.

AlanDoak

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

May 18, 2015 - 11:55am PT

El Cap already has the article, it's in Spanish. Likewise, people commonly refer to it as "The Captain".

Looking on Mountain Project, The Nose is named The Nose. While Zodiac is simply Zodiac. When referring to astrology I'll say "the zodiac", but I'll say "I did a winter ascent of Zodiac.", which I did.

For routes that are named after the features they ascend (the: north face, east buttress, north ridge: of the Eiger, of El Cap....), which could be used as proper nouns or not, then it seems that an article is commonly used.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

May 18, 2015 - 12:02pm PT

I remember a similar discussion about 40 years ago or so about names at Suicide, e.g. why name it "The Pirate" and not just "Pirate?"

In general, most of my favorite route names lack definite articles -- [Notice how I worded this to avoid using "the."] "Indecent Exposure," "Hot Buttered Rump," "On The Lamb," etc. But then, "The Coming" or "The Yawn" on Medilicott Dome wouldn't quite be the same without the definite article.

John

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

May 18, 2015 - 12:06pm PT

Wait just a minute John. "On The Lamb" sure looks like it has a definite article.

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

May 18, 2015 - 12:10pm PT

'The' is presumptuous, like it's the once and future pirate?

Sport climber

Sonora Ca

May 18, 2015 - 12:10pm PT

the sierras

Bruce Morris

Social climber

Belmont, California

May 18, 2015 - 12:12pm PT

Except it's really difficult to manage "The" is alphabetized route lists when you enter them into a database. Yes?

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

May 18, 2015 - 12:13pm PT

Good point, Ghost! I guess Tuolumne Meadows just cries out for "the" in its names (see, e.g. "The Cooler,") but there's always "Sharkey's End."

John

skitch

Gym climber

Bend Or

May 18, 2015 - 12:17pm PT

I've actually been thinking about climbing the On The Lamb this summer.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

May 18, 2015 - 12:33pm PT

I hate to be picky, but it's the Sierra Nevada, or the Sierra, not the Sierras.

John

skitch

Gym climber

Bend Or

May 18, 2015 - 12:43pm PT

What do I say if I plan on climbing all of the Sierra Nevada mountains this weekend, and all of the Sierra Madre mountains next weekend??? Can I say that I'm climbing the sierras this month???

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

May 18, 2015 - 12:44pm PT

I hate to be picky, but it's the Sierra Nevada, or the Sierra, not the Sierras.

I, too, hate to be picky, but you've forced my hand again...

"The Sierras" is just fine. There are many "Sierras", but you damn ignorant Californians keep thinking the one in your back yard is the only one, and applying your definite article corrections accordingly.

In fact we could even start a list of "the Sierra Nevadas." I've visited two of them, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more...