Leaders Get Prority.

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Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Original Post - May 4, 2015 - 10:40am PT
I was a total dick yesterday.

I might have been a little grumpy, showing up at a busy crag, at the crack of noon thirty, on a weekend, again.....

I was climbing with Sandra and we rolled up to a nice easy section of the cliff with some short moderates for us to warm up on. Another party rocked up and started sussing out the wall, so I threw my rope down in front of a 5.6 to claim it.

Sandra goes over to look at it and starts racking up, when one of the guys from the other party notices her and says "Oh, we were going to top-rope that one." Sandra being the nice girl she is, starts apologizing and says "ok, you guys can have it."

I however had thought I had made our intentions very clear and had gotten to it first, so I said "Leaders take precedence." This was delivered what was probably a less than amiable tone. Sandra was shocked I said anything at all and was less than pleased I had instigated this conflict. "I could see if you guys were already up there tossing the rope down" I said, to which "I was just getting ready to go do that" came the dejected reply.

With that they stormed off in a huff. "Well if you're going to be like that, we don't want to climb here anyways."

So yes I was a bit of a dick, but I still think I was right, and was more than willing to share the wall, if they wanted to do any of the other three routes on the wall which we hadn't already claimed. Having had many ropes tossed on me in the past, I make a point of making my opinions on the subject known well in advance now a days to avoid on the wall conflicts.

We also had some rockfall knocked off by another group of top-ropers, after that, which is another reason I'm not fond of beginners setting up anchors above where I'm climbing.

What say ye? Am I just a dick, or was there a point to be made?
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
May 4, 2015 - 10:45am PT
Now they know. Bailing was their choice.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
May 4, 2015 - 10:48am PT
You're just a dick. ;>)
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
May 4, 2015 - 10:48am PT
Rope on the ground at the base of the climb is the standard way of claiming the route. Now...if I saw a rope at the base, and a gaggle of people unpacking a picnic lunch complete with a groundcloth, I might ask about getting the line in while they were eating. But your partner was at the base with the rope, racking up. You were not the dick - the people who saw the obvious were wrong to try to horn in.

And tell Sandra that Happie said she needs to get some cajones. Leaders don't let gumbies pull gumby BS. How else those people going to learn, if they get away with that kind of carp?!
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
May 4, 2015 - 10:49am PT
people get grumpy in Canada?
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
May 4, 2015 - 10:53am PT
You mean cojones. Cajones are drawers.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 4, 2015 - 10:54am PT
Whoever gets there first, wins. That would include setting up TR anchors.

Maybe you could've been more tactful about claiming your route.

Maybe just said "we won't be long".

Then again, who gives a sh#t about gumby top-ropers.
John M

climber
May 4, 2015 - 11:01am PT
+1 for what Happie said. Tell Sandra that we said "harden the foook up". though do it in a nice tone.. heh heh… grumpiness will get you in the doghouse. Plus it makes it hard to really interpret what others are saying.

when going out in public.. leave the grumpiness at home.. or choose places without crowds. I know.. I know.. easier said then done. I tend to be grumpy too.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2015 - 11:02am PT
And tell Sandra that Happie said she needs to get some cajones. Leaders don't let gumbies pull gumby BS. How else those people going to learn, if they get away with that kind of carp?!

Exactly Happie. This was also part of my objection. Sandra learned that she should stick up for herself by example.

John.. I know .. ;)

Yes i could have been nicer. Tone has always been one of my downfalls. That's probably why i like the forum so much, you can't pin me down to one tone.. Lol
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2015 - 11:09am PT
Then again, who gives a sh#t about gumby top-ropers.
bad tude dude!


mike you could have set the top rope for those TR pro's then you could have had a big climber party!
make friends not enemies!!!

rope at the base of a climb = ur turn!



rbord

Boulder climber
atlanta
May 4, 2015 - 11:11am PT
Sounds like you were there first so I would expect you to have first shot. Often I think there's a kind of social negotiation that goes on that smooths things over, and some of us (other people :-) are better at that than others. Making up your own rule (leaders have priority!) to me is kind of a heavy handed solution in that you're trying to say that the only correct solution is your rule. But I think that we make up rules all the time to justify our perspectives, it's just what we humans do. Your rule definitely beats white people have priority :-)
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2015 - 11:14am PT
Pyro, yes I totally would have too, but I pissed them off with my statement and they were outta there.

I respect leaders, and if top-roping will make an effort to get out of their way as soon as possible. I've had many groups of beginners monopolize routes that others at the crag would like to lead in the past so I believe firmly in this rule. I didn't make it up either, but gleaned it from the local guidebook ethics section.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 4, 2015 - 11:14am PT
You were there first, so that settles that part of it.

As to the other part, the part about leading vs TRing -- Suppose that you and Sandra had arrived first, and had dropped a rope down something so that you could TR it. At that point I walk up and say "Hey, get your rope off that thing. I'm going to lead it, so go somewhere else."

Would you really apologize, pull your rope off the climb you got to first, and leave? I don't think so.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
May 4, 2015 - 11:16am PT
Whoever gets there first has the priority.

Top-roping is fun!

Now there's going to be a Canadian legend about some grumpy giant that lives in the woods and yells at noobs
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 4, 2015 - 11:17am PT
Where I come from, you have priority because you were there first. And I don't agree with the idea that "we wanted to top-rope that, too" should allow access to a climb others are ready to do. If anything, those groups with large numbers of people need to be careful not to overwhelm the crag.

I agree, though, with what John M and Pyro say. "We won't be long. Would like us to set up your top-rope when we get to the top?" really means, "No, you can't go before we do the climb." The difference in tone between the two approaches, however, can result in vastly different levels of hostility and, perhaps, remorse.

John
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2015 - 11:21am PT
Would you really apologize, pull your rope off the climb you got to first, and leave? I don't think so.

No certainly not, but i would make an effort to get out of their way as soon as possible.

Lol Daniel! Life is so much easier with an edit button..
Gunkie

climber
May 4, 2015 - 11:27am PT
Gosh, this is a very regular occurrence in the Gunks. A knife fight usually settles things.
this just in

climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
May 4, 2015 - 11:28am PT
I've seen this guy use foul language, at least they weren't skiers. Or maybe they were.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
May 4, 2015 - 11:29am PT
but I pissed them off with my statement and they were outta there.

big mike that effing funny!

you did the right thing...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2015 - 11:30am PT
Those guys snaked us so hard after we put that trail in! And the physically assaulted you too! F$&@ing skiers! Lol

Gunkie! Lol! I can see that with New Yorkers and all..
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