Why is this static line so much cheaper?

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gezas

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - May 2, 2015 - 06:43pm PT
I was surfing the web looking for my first static line for doing some canyoning. And while doing the search I found this product http://ebay.to/1E5Eryy . First thing I noticed was that the braid looked different from all the other line that I've looked at, but the breaking strength is 4,800 lbs. So my first question is, would this be quality static line for rappelling and ascending roughly 80 ft at a time, and I was also wondering if this would fray/ break more easily. Instead of just telling me whether or not to buy it could you point out why or why not to? Thanks
Zack
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 2, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
Why cheaper - dynamic ropes stretch to soften a fall and are held to stricter performance standards. Should be obvious.
Why you should buy that mystery poly rope - it's cheap and 3/8" is about 10mm, considered standard for recreational use.
Why you shouldn't - mystery gear of eBay should be considered suspect, a reasonable purchase for an educated person. If you want to get into this awesone and dangerous pass time I highly suggest professional help, either from a guide or a certified dealer of said gear, who can help you make these decisions :)
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 2, 2015 - 06:54pm PT
As there are plenty ways to die, I wouldn't cheap out on the rope....

Some off-brand rope like this that's clearly sold as "NOT intended for life support." wouldn't find me hanging from it.

ECF

Big Wall climber
May 2, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
3/8" is 9mm

That rope is not what you want, for anything to do with climbing.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 2, 2015 - 06:58pm PT
I smell troll, but anyhow . . .

3/8" line for rapping? That is heavy clothesline. Sure, it might hold your body weight, but one nick in that cord and it will be kersplat

You want a reputable company with decent QA.

John M

climber
May 2, 2015 - 07:48pm PT
Warning Warning.. I am not a highly experienced climber. Take everything that I say with a grain of salt.

That said.. I will give you my understanding and hopefully someone with more experience in this will chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

Ropes for climbing purposes have a sheath and a core. Both dynamic and static. The sheath is tightly woven to resist cuts and abrasion and protect the core, so you have two layers of protection. If the outside sheath fails, the core should still protect you. Our own Karl Baba shared a story on the forum about just such an occurrence on El Cap. Full sheath cut and only 2 out of either 7 or 9 strands of the core left. I don't remember exactly.

The rope you show does not appear to have a sheath and core, so if one strand is cut, it could unravel and with no core to protect you, it would be much less safe. Plus it looks more loosely woven, which could mean it would be more likely to snag on something and be cut.

Just my two cents. Hopefully an expert will chime in.




vvvvvv.. and the expert has chimed in. LOL

John M

climber
May 2, 2015 - 08:05pm PT
Don't be dissing the ninja folding grappling hook. Them things are bad ass. I bought three of them. I'm getting my ninja on.

kee yah!!!!!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
May 2, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
I think the OP is referring to when Werner lead Astroman with a static cord.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
May 2, 2015 - 10:44pm PT
I just wish you could bey good dynamic rope in giant spools and cut it to whatever you want like I do with static line. Dynamic rope manufacturers think they're so cool!
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 3, 2015 - 12:13am PT
Don't normal climbing specific static lines have sheaths unlike this one?
JimT

climber
Munich
May 3, 2015 - 06:11am PT
The rope you show does not appear to have a sheath and core, so if one strand is cut, it could unravel and with no core to protect you, it would be much less safe. Plus it looks more loosely woven, which could mean it would be more likely to snag on something and be cut.
te

Like most work and yacht cordage it´s double-braid construction as it´s softer, easier to splice and doesn´t twist/untwist under load. Braid on braid polester is a fairly low-stretch rope used for stuff like sheets in yachting. I´d rap and ascend it for sure, one ends up doing this loads if you work in a boatyard:-)
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
May 3, 2015 - 11:16am PT
I know that 3/8 is a little more than 9mm but the cord pictured looks more like a 7.5 mm line.
Flip Flop

climber
salad bowl, california
May 3, 2015 - 03:29pm PT
Yer so gonna die.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
May 3, 2015 - 03:39pm PT
we here really are trying to say
go and learn something about this stuff.
and if you do not understand
what?
and how?
and what if? and what then?
then the your gonna die comment may apply sooner than later.

that said climb on the best rope you can afford, but what is yourLIFE-LINE worth?

Many people started on dangerous 'found' at the job rope' or old barn/garage rope start.

and some still admit to the cloths line rap off the roof or whatever.

just know that we all like to hear about the trials of starting out.
Having found your way here and been warned at least three times that You'er Gonna Die
please keep us all up to date with your progress and as the kids say No pictures? it did Not happen so take pictures and post them, thanx. looking forward to some summer fun in the slots of Utah, i hope!
Caveman

climber
Cumberland Plateau
May 3, 2015 - 07:32pm PT
Most good caving ropes will be one over one under(diamond) braid with a core that is as straight as possible. The rope shown is herringbone braid which could also be the same for the core. These attributes would add bounce to the rope and possible lower cut resistance.
gtowey

Sport climber
Sunnyvale, CA
May 4, 2015 - 03:38pm PT
Looks like rope used for boat-y stuff which once it's on board a boat it becomes a "line."

It may be strong enough, but I don't know enough about rope construction to say what differences in construction may yield. Probably safer to buy rope made for your purpose and not cheap out.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 4, 2015 - 05:20pm PT
It certainly wouldn't be as durable without a sheath would it. Ain't worth your life bro.
Paul Martzen

Trad climber
Fresno
May 5, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
I agree with JimT that it is standard yachting/work rope and is plenty strong for rapping or ascending. Since it is not intended for human support, they don't have to pay the same liability rates. The price looks in the ball park for that type of rope so it isn't really "so much cheaper". It is also not listed as a "static line", though as JimT states it should be fairly low stretch. It is not a "canyoning" rope, just a working rope that is pretty strong.

In rappelling you are dealing with pretty low forces so you could use a wide range of materials. People hang themselves with their belts, escape from windows with bedsheets. Then there was that prince who climbed a tower using his girlfriend's hair. Wasn't her name Rapunzel? She must have tied the hair off or something.

Pro: Cheap. polyester is good for rapping. 4800 test is plenty strong. It is easy to inspect the braids for damage.

Con: Loose braid will absorb a lot of water and get heavy in wet canyons. Loose braid is probably less resistant to abrasion. Sand can get deeper into the rope than if it had a tighter braided sheath. Your friends might be horrified and posters on Supertopo will make fun of you.

Depending on the type of canyons you do, it might be just fine or it might wear out quickly. But since it isn't specifically made for rappelling or canyoning, you will get a lot flack about it.

Lots of canyoneers are going single line raps with thinner and thinner ropes to save weight. Core shots are more and more common. I think that is crazy, but you buy these ropes from reputable dealers. By comparison 3/8 inch braided polyester looks pretty safe to me, especially if you double line rap as climbers normally do.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
May 5, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
From go2marine


Double Braid rope and line is also known as Kernmantle rope named after the ropes construction. The rope consists of two braids, an inner core (the kern) which is protected with a woven outer sheath (the mantle) that is designed to optimize strength, durability, and flexibility.




ROPE
DIA. CIRC. AVG TENSILE STRENGTH APRX. WEIGHT lbs/100'
3/16" 9/16" 1,200 lbs. 1.3
1/4" 3/4" 2,200 2.3
5/16" 1" 3,300 3.2
3/8" 1-1/8" 4,400 4.4
7/16" 1-1/4" 5,800 6.2
1/2" 1-1/2" 8,200 8.0
9/16" 1-3/4" 11,000 10.1
5/8" 2" 13,500 12.3
3/4" 2-1/4" 19,000 18.1
7/8" 2-3/4" 27,600 23.5
1" 3" 36,700 32.0
1-1/8" 3-1/2" 45,000 42.0
1-1/4" 3-3/4" 54,000 50.0
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
May 5, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
I just wish you could bey good dynamic rope in giant spools and cut it to whatever you want like I do with static line. Dynamic rope manufacturers think they're so cool!

Blue Water offers several of their climbing ropes in 600' or 200m lengths.
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