How do you thread the rope for a lower off?

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mcreel

climber

Barcelona

Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 24, 2015 - 04:38am PT

Let's suppose you want to lower off from a reliable fixed anchor that has lower rings. What's your procedure? Enquiring minds want to know.

What I do is to push a bight of rope through the ring(s), make an overhand or figure 8 on the bight, clip it to my belay loop with 2 opposed biners, untie, and lower. A big advantage, IMHO, is that you can't drop the rope.

Reeotch

climber

4 Corners Area

Apr 24, 2015 - 04:50am PT

They;re not called "lower rings", they are "rappell rings". IMHO, climbers should not lower or toprope off of rap rings.

I know it is a common practice, but if you want to lower off or toprope, please use quickdraws. OK?

If you absolutely have to do it, make sure the rings you are abusing are made of steel, not those crappy little rolled aluminum pieces of crap.

Rappelling puts much less strain on the anchor, plus you don't have to worry about your partner lowering you off the end of the rope. Just tie knots in the ends

skcreidc

Social climber

SD, CA

Apr 24, 2015 - 06:15am PT

^^^^ lol!! And just the other day I was thinking that was Abbot and Costollo.

What Reeotech said. Rap off the rings; put in quick draws on to run laps on the route and lower off. Example Rumney; the quick links there ... some have really deep grooves cut into them from lowering off.

skcreidc

Social climber

SD, CA

Apr 24, 2015 - 06:29am PT

You are dead on right DMT, looked it up myself. A classic skit apparently. Cool.

hooblie

climber

from out where the anecdotes roam

Apr 24, 2015 - 07:00am PT

upon further review, puzzle pieces align, mirth emerges. plus now i'm edified.
...and nice tie in with the catskills, there's clammoring there right?

WBraun

climber

Apr 24, 2015 - 07:10am PT

So ... according to supertopo methods.

1.) Put rope thru anchor.

2.) Watch three stooges

3.) Then get lowered

Big Mike

Trad climber

Apr 24, 2015 - 07:56am PT

Don't.

Unless your replace fixed gear at your crag and then go ahead and lower on your fixed gear all you want.

maldaly

Trad climber

Boulder, CO

Apr 24, 2015 - 08:07am PT

To complicate things further, here's how I do it:

The leader clips the bolt anchors with two shoulder length runners and clips her rope through those. The rest of the climbers do what they're going to do. When it's time to clean the pitch, the "cleaner" leaves the draw in the last bolt, unclips her rope and clips in the other strand of rope. When she gets to the anchors she unclips the rope through one of the long draws and clips in straight then repeats the process with the other long draw. Now she's in straight to two anchors AND still on belay through the top bolt. At no time was she ever through just a single piece.

At that point she rethreads however is appropriate, and either lowers or raps off, retrieving the draw from the top bolt on the way down.

Cool, eh?

You're going to bust my balls for this but I'm not a big fan of setting up raps to descend from sport routes. We act as if the condition of the lowering anchors are more important than the safety of the climber. I've had three friends who have f*#ked this up, all of them very experienced climbers. One broke his pelvis and back, one broke every bone breakable and is now an amputee and the third was saved by an intervention. I'm sure there are many other similar stories out there.

I have yet to hear of an injury or a fall because a top anchor wore out.

It seems like most areas now have a stewardship group or have annual "crag maintenance days" where the area is cleaned up and anchors are inspected and replaced. I'm also psyched to see more and more areas using Mussy Hooks (Thanks Russ) or those Fixe ring anchors with the bomber hardened steel rings that seem impervious to wear.

(Has anyone ever seen those rings show any sign of wear? I haven't. I think because they're round and spread any wear equally around the circle, if your wil, they simply don't get grooved out.)

Whatever, thanks for listening to the ranting of an old fart.

Climb safe. Pay attention. Have fun.
Mal

Chaz

Trad climber

greater Boss Angeles area

Apr 24, 2015 - 08:13am PT

1. Leader leads the pitch, establishes an anchor

2. Second, carrying the pack, follows and cleans the pitch

3. Kick back for a while and enjoy the view, a cold one, and each other's company

4. Walk off the back

TLP

climber

Apr 24, 2015 - 08:30am PT

Mal, your point is well taken that safety ranks higher than wear on a replaceable anchor, but it seems to me I read of more sport lowering accidents, including fatalities, than rappelling ones (though plenty of rappelling accidents on other kinds of climbs). It's not that valid of a comparison given that the number of times people get lowered is orders of magnitude higher than number of people who rappel off a sport anchor, but still, lowering isn't totally safe either.

And wasn't there a fatality just last year or so from a rope cut by a worn carabiner? It's probably only a matter of time before that happens at a sport anchor.

phylp

Trad climber

Upland, CA

Apr 24, 2015 - 09:20am PT

Mal, I respectfully disagree with you.

I routinely see worn anchors in high density sport climbing areas where people toprope through the anchors rather than using their own draws, and where they lower rather than rappel for the final person down. These anchors become sharp and carry their own risks for rope damage. These types of accidents have been documented (rope cutting). There are circumstances where it's more difficult to rap - where there is no stance at all on an overhanging route for example. Clearly, people need to use their own judgment about safety that is particular to the circumstance. I rap about 95% of the time in situations where I could be lowered.

I am very sorry about your friends' accidents. But being lowed is not without it's own risks. There are many documented accidents from lowering mistakes as well, due to miscommunication, short ropes etc.
Phyl

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Apr 24, 2015 - 09:23am PT

I think he means this in a sport climbing context.

If a sport climb is equipped with STEEL RINGS.... and your the last one in your crew so you need your gear and others are waiting to climb the rig......... LOWER DOWN

Pushing the loop of rope through the SHUTS and a fig 8 clipped in with a locker is how I do it.

The best are the MUSSY Hooks...... stay tied in, put the cord in the hooks, undo your draws yell TAKE and LOWER ME.... takes about 15 seconds....

get with the year 2015 boys, least you look like fossils on the stone.

LOL

Big Mike

Trad climber

Apr 24, 2015 - 09:31am PT

The problem with lowering off is people think it's standard routine and some people don't even know how to rappel because they've never had to!

I see worn fixed gear all the time and people toproping on the chains/rings. It's fine to do it occasionally, but it's not the proper way to clean a climb and it creates bad habits in noobs.

mcreel

climber

Barcelona

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 24, 2015 - 10:35am PT

Here in Spain, fixed gear gets pretty good maintenance (sometimes by myself) at the popular areas, so I don't feel too bad lowering using rings, when they're beefy and shiny. Quicklinks are easy to replace, and Fixe hangers with welded rings only cost 4 euros. Plus, it's only the last climber lowered who weights the rings, because quickdraws are added to bear the weight for the others (usually just myself).

Soooooo, the reason I asked is because I see people clipping in, untying, and threading the rope, which is much more time consuming and more likely to lead to accidents and clusterf#cks, I would say. I was wondering if people on ST do that.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Apr 24, 2015 - 10:50am PT

(Has anyone ever seen those rings show any sign of wear? I haven't. I think because they're round and spread any wear equally around the circle, if your wil, they simply don't get grooved out.)

And...a quick google search reveals:

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107265197

http://i.imgur.com/KJ2Q941.jpg