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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 11, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
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This is a breakout from the Moonlight thread. Curious. What percent of climbers can trad lead 12c? My wild ass guess would be 1 percent. But I've got absolutely no basis for that. ha
Thoughts?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:31pm PT
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1% is probably a good guess. Hordes can lead 12c sport bit I know very few who can even come close to 12c trad.
It may seem that more are leading at that level but thats only because we are bombarded in the rags and media by that same 20 guys and gals climbing stuff at that level or harder.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 11, 2015 - 04:34pm PT
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My thought is the more interesting question is how many can onsight 12c trad.
I'm sure some can, but at some point the difficulty just gets to the point where no one is going to onsight at the grade without cleaning, previewing, ticking, rehearsing and possibly retrobolting and/or pre-placing gear.
At that point is it really trad climbing and at that point does the label really matter? Not to me; at that point the name of the game is can you simply get up it clean. Seems as though on the Dawn Wall Caldwell and Jorgeson were lowering and pulling the rope after falls and so that remained of the trad ethic - kudos them in that regard.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:08pm PT
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I don't know any and I've probably met a hundred or so climbers. By that highly scientific analysis I'm going to say less than 1%
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:11pm PT
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grand delusion at sugarloaf
is 12+ and i've personally
seen two locals whom post
here charge their way
up the aweful overhanging fingertip
lie-back with tiny stopper
and cams for hail-mary pro.
i won't name names
except i'll call
them
paul Crawford
and that half-wit swellguy character
also known as aiden.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
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At my strongest I was able to lead .12c trad, and usually onsight. I never thought I was in the upper tier though. I bet a lot of young, strong climbers can do it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:30pm PT
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If Moonlight is 12c then it's probably more accessible to a higher number or percentage of climbers than most 12c's. It eats up pro and much of it seems to be repetitive moves of the same type. It seems like the closest thing to a trad/sport climb than others of a similar grade but then again I have not been to Indian Creek. I could never climb it free in my wildest dreams but I could see if I were younger it would be a good route to work towards.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
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Moonlight buttress is in Zion not Indian creek ....
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
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Werner.... you're a man who knows everything. Whats your guess on 12c?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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Sorry, that was my point Werner, I have not been to IC yet but I would imagine IC would be the closest thing to trad/sport climbing. I know ML is in Zion, I climbed it last year and had a blast on it.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2015 - 05:56pm PT
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Whats my guess on 12c?
Guess what ....
Guessing doesn't work very well.
I don't know.
It's absolutely completely unimportant to me.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:11pm PT
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Does Werner go outside anymore? he seems to post pretty quick. I live in Burbank so I have an excuse.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:19pm PT
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Annother thought is how many can string a bunch of pitches together at or near that grade? not just one 30m pitch.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:23pm PT
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Batrock
I've been outside almost all day working.
I'm now inside.
Am I supposed to stand outside all night too?
:-)
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Apr 11, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
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Tough crack climb, I'm not sure of the grade.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Apr 11, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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Prolly depends a lot on who you think is a climber.
Google how your brain processes your blind spot if interested in the efficacy of guessing. Or read Blink ( or just read the description). Guessing is what we do. My guess is that your guess is probably good enough for your purpose.
Science could be a good strategy if up for the work. Or ask someone with a direct line to God if you crave more certainty.
My expert opinion is none. Yours is probably better, but mine is probably closer. I think that"s just how math works. Is math really what you wanted?
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 11, 2015 - 07:32pm PT
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I've seen one 5.13- trad redpoint.
Ben Harnden on Sixty Nine
And i've met four other gentlemen who have led 12c or harder on gear.
Jeremy Smith
Will Stanhope
Marc Andre Leclerc
Alex Honnold
There are probably quite a few others in Squamish. My buddy Kyle is pushing 12- and I know Grippa is serious about taking a free crack at moonlight.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Apr 11, 2015 - 07:33pm PT
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gets you to wondering how many can trad follow 12c, doesn't it?
likewise, is the scale logarithmic? what base? your choice.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Apr 11, 2015 - 07:58pm PT
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We never talked too much about numbers, but I seem to remember Brian telling me this pitch may be around .12. This is not the bullet proof sandstone of Indian Creek.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Apr 11, 2015 - 08:00pm PT
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Funny, when I read this thread title I immediately thought of Brian. Nice pix Albatross.
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