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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 13, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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Have you read "What is Mind?" on the ST Forum?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Mar 13, 2015 - 12:42pm PT
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Not sure but I believe HFCS is the resident expert on meditation over there on that infamous thread.
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Mar 13, 2015 - 02:00pm PT
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To me however, meditation is not philosophical. Or at least doesn't need to be.
I agree with you there, OA.
In fact, almost everything I've read from various meditation teachers says that getting beyond the mind is the purpose of meditation.
Several years ago I did a Vipassana Meditation course in northern California. It was 10 days of sitting in silence for 14 hours a day. Waking in silence, eating in silence, moving about the campus without even making eye contact with another person. And only ten minute breaks between the hour+ sits.
Tough as hell initially...and then...well, then it became transformational.
Within the year I did another 10-day course in the Blue Mountains of Australia.
It almost killed me. But in a good way. :-)
I find rock climbing--when you're out with only your partner and the endless mountains of stone--a form of moving meditation. Not as profound as feeling yourself disappear when you're sitting on a zafu...but definitely mind altering.
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Mar 13, 2015 - 03:10pm PT
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If you really want to experience an alternate reality via meditation, OA, the long retreats are really the only way to do it, in my humble experience.
The mind is a very constant and jealous warden. It takes extended periods of what would appear to be crushing boredom by today's standards to separate "you" from your ever vigilant mind.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2015 - 03:12pm PT
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I think that there are many things people do that they call meditation. There are many things to discover when you actively take the time to liberate your thoughts from a preconceived notion of what is real or not. Some have a method and a goal and others just have a notion or desire to explore. There are many possibilities that exist in these exploratory adventures. Some do not care to explore and merely seek a peace of mind or heart, or healing. Have fun with it. If you come across "the Black Pit of Despair" then go the other way by all means. ;)
What started out for me as a nap between jobs has evolved into daily meditation and on to what I now call merely "stillness". Whether active or passive, eyes open or closed, the goal for me is the still, silent voice that remains the conduit to Universality.(Universe reality)(Source)(Consciousness)(Love)(Whatever trips your trigger)
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 13, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
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I have found that double-digging raised bed gardens while the wife is away provides both a sense of unthinking focus and silence...and you get a veggie ready garden plot when you are done.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 13, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
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I strive to grok the fullness of stillness......
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 13, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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Ojai said "Teachers can be great, but it all comes down to one's self."
This is true to the extent that the teachers can only point the way and you have to do the work.
Meditation has been around asia for thousands of years and only recently showed up in the west.So westerners are typically very uninformed about meditation. Lucky for us there are many good available teachers in the last 30 years. Consequently I can't think of any good reasons as to not seek out a good teachers guidance especially if you have never meditated or if you haven't discussed your practice with a good teacher.
The problem with doing your own thing is you only do what you like and you don't do what you don't like so it becomes a ego oriented practice which ends up having the opposite intention of buddhist meditation ie. Vipassana or zen or tibetan; and consequently has very limited value in creating a space where true insight can happen.
Trungpa called this spiritual Materialism and wrote a very good book about it.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2015 - 05:15pm PT
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The problem with doing your own thing is you only do what you like and you don't do what you don't like so it becomes a ego oriented practice which ends up having the opposite intention of buddhist meditation ie. Vipassana or zen or tibetan; and consequently has very limited value in creating a space where true insight can happen.
That sounds a bit dogmatic to me, although that is certainly one way to look at it.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
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for me the best teacher is the one I found inside.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 13, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
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Chief said "4-5 days a week for 6-9 hours per session..... Alone."
I hear this alot; running is my meditation, fishing is my meditation.
It is not about relaxing, escaping and enjoying your self. It can be; but, it is also witnessing all the uncomfortable stuff too, being completely present with boredom, sorrow and pain, literally embracing it as much as you embrace fishing.
The question becomes why would you want to do that? Typically either out of great curiosity or great suffering.
Most people are too busy fishing, climbing and running to meditate or they "think" it is a waste of time; that's just the way it is.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 13, 2015 - 06:50pm PT
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Most people are too busy
Yes.
So the sitting meditation is not practical for this age of kali yuga.
In the sata yuga people could do it for the life span of a human being was up to 100,000 years.
But it took on the average 60,000 years to reach perfection.
The modern sitting meditation practices will not lead to perfection for in this age of kali yuga
a human being barely makes it anywhere near 100 years life span.
Thus one will only be reborn again in this material world to re-suffer the pangs of birth, death, disease and old age
in this age with this meditation method ......
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 13, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
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Meditation is exactly the place where you find joy.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 13, 2015 - 09:04pm PT
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It's not about doing something, it's about doing nothing.
Yes .... it's been repeatedly demonstrated by the modern politards "sitting" in meditation in their offices ....
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 13, 2015 - 10:21pm PT
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do nothing but don't expect nothing.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 14, 2015 - 08:09am PT
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We are never prepared for what we expect.
James A. Michener
Caravans
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matthew 24:44
King James Bible
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 14, 2015 - 08:32am PT
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 14, 2015 - 08:38am PT
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This is how they respect the Buddha.
Make him sit out in the cold and in the dirt all while bird sh!t on his head .....
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L
climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
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Mar 14, 2015 - 08:44am PT
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Werner...the Buddha don't care. He's beyond that. :-)
Nice Buddha, Jaybro!
About 14 months ago, I started meditating every morning. I knew it would do some good, and it has, but not in the ways I expected.
OA, about your opening post...what has meditation brought you "not in ways you expected?"
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