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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 16, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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So after years of talking about it, the lady and I finally decided to take a winter trip to Thailand/Vietnam. While the trip will be a mix of traveling/relaxing/seeing some friends climbing will certainly be a focal point.
I know with limited time on a first trip, it's really hard to strike the balance between packing too much in and also getting a feel for a variety of places, but I'm thinking:
1. 2 nights in Bangkok on the front end OR back end (it's the only place I've been in Thailand/it's cool but we live in a city and would probably rather see other places that are prettier and less loud/chaotic)
(Questionable) Fly to Krabi, boat/taxi to Ton Sai/Railay, spend 3 days climbing and 2 days resting/beaching/snorkeling - I've heard SO many mixed reviews of Ton Sai, people either say it's awesome or it sucks. It looks cool, we don't mind crowds/expect them and the beaches look awesome - what was your experience?
(Questionable) Fly from Krabi to Chiang Mai - climb at Crazy Horse 2 days and rest/explore days. I've heard nothing but good things about Chiang Mai, but not much about the climbing - experiences?
Fly from Chaing Mai to Hanoi, spend 2 nights in Hanoi, bus out to Cat Ba, climb with Asia Outdoors (Slo Pony)for 3-4 days and maybe take an overnight Ha Long Bay cruise, 2 days
Head home.
While we could do ALL this in the timeline laid out, it seems a bit too crazy, so if we were going to skip something which one of the following do y'all recommend:
 Krabi/Ton Sai
Chiang Mai/Crazy Horse
Cat Ba/Ha Long Bay
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Oct 16, 2014 - 11:30am PT
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Don't do it!! They're opening up a new Ebola Isis branch there!!
Kidding, I've always wanted to go to Vietnam. Have a blast!
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wallyvirginia
Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Oct 16, 2014 - 11:49am PT
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Chiang Mai is great, the crazy (not kicking) horse buttress is half an hour outside of town, when I was there a couple of years ago a truck left the climbing shop downtown every morning with eager climbers and back again in the afternoon. Cheap and good lunch included.
Ha Long Bay is magic. A boat from Cat Ba will take you to the climbing and dws. Also lunch and kayaks included.
I'd skip out on Krabi, unless you're into diving..
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2014 - 12:20pm PT
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Thanks Wally...and yes I meant Crazy Horse, not Kicking Horse :)
As far as I can tell the non-DWS crag in Vietnam is right outside of Cat Ba with rides offered from the climbing shop (as you indicated).
Not into diving but enjoying swimming/snorkeling in a warm ocean sounds pretty awesome (main motivation for Railay/Tonsai) but we may have to skip it and opt for Chiang Mai instead.
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Rockies Obscure
climber
Canada
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Oct 16, 2014 - 12:42pm PT
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Benbro,
My info for Krabi is two decades old so I wont bother.
Hanoi to CatBa is a full day on busing if you go the cheap local route and the boat out to CatBa. Maybe more expensive bus will get you there faster, not sure, but i was there 4 years ago.
Catba is nice and for big cities I loved Hanoi.
DWS is near town but roped climbing you have to take a boat to and the cliff we went to was too far so we just did a Halong Bay cruise thru Slopony for 3 days. On day 2 we kayaked over to a bolted cliff and tiny beach and had fun on the sharp rock(bring old shoes maybe).
Going out for one night only in Halong(if they even bother) is a bad idea, go for 2-3!!
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dsqrd
climber
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Oct 16, 2014 - 12:51pm PT
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my perspective is a little dated maybe, but my (now) wife and I had a blast at Railay/TonSai. We went 7 years ago off season - had to fly to Phuket, but after a long bus ride to Krabi and a short "taxi" to the boat dock there we were. We stayed on the eastside of Railay (Sunrise Tropical Resort I think) and climbed on both the eastside / westside Railay beaches and a little on Ton Sai itself. Beautiful spot, super people, fun bars, and climbing tufas w/ manky slings to clip was a blast.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Oct 16, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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Damn, that sounds awesome. Been to Thailand (Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya) once before and liked it very much. REALLY good food, awesome beaches. friendly people and really good muay thai fighters. Riding elephants was fun too. Not sure about the climbing, didn’t climb back than.
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t-bone
climber
Bishop
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Oct 16, 2014 - 02:48pm PT
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With only about 3 weeks(?) I would stay put more and travel less. A lot of the bus travel kinda sucks and can get you much more puckered than climbing. Maybe just Thailand or just Vietnam?
Tonsai/Railay is far better climbing than the other areas, and due to it's comfortable hang, will be hard to leave no matter how long you plan. No good snorkeling there but the beach is nice.
You can take side trips to many other islands and could surely find one with good snorkeling. Koa Lao Liang (sp?) has good climbing and cool snorkeling in a kind of basic (sleep in tents on the beach) all-inclusive environment. You can book a trip from the climbing shop in Tonsai.
Chiang Mai is a fun city (much less overwhelming than Bangkok). Crazy Horse is mediocre climbing but a good excuse to get out into the countryside. I highly recommend renting a motorbike in Chiang Mai to cruise around/ get lost/ explore. Riding the moped to Crazy Horse will be more memorable than the climbing. Stop by the cavern you will see signs for.
I found Vietnam to be more interesting culturally but not as good for quality of climbing. Cat Ba is fun. Slo Pony takes boats to Lan Ha (sp?) Bay, adjacent to but supposedly less-touristy version of Ha Long Bay. Beautiful iconic karst formations everywhere. Cat Ba is another great place to rent mopeds! A good national park, cliff-side war bunkers, and OK inland climbing (Butterfly Valley) to explore.
If I get a chance I'll post some pics to get you psyched.
Have fun!
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wallyvirginia
Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
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Oct 16, 2014 - 02:55pm PT
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There's a decent sport crag on Cat Ba island too, maybe a mile or two from the harbor/town. We rented motobikes and went there for half a day, it was pretty good. Remember I onsighted two 6c routes and felt pretty good about myself but the cool climbing is on other smaller, uninhabited islands.
EDIT: Yeah, T-bone beat me to it..
Check out "the Gibbon experience" in Laos.
French climbers came up with this idea to preserve the rain forest, they built the craziest zip line park. Google it, it's something else!
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fgw
climber
portland, or
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Oct 16, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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We really enjoyed climbing here: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/khao-chin-lae-2/106764283
…just outside of the town of Lopburi (~2hrs from Bangkok). If you’re looking for moderate (<6b+) multipitch, it’s a great place (for about a 3 days stay); if you want single pitch hard stuff probably not so much. We saw no other climbers in the area and relatively few western tourists, lots of great & cheap food/fruits, and Lopburi was just a cool little town with a nice old quarter. Pretty much all qualities that we did not see in Railay (move for move, climbing was probably better there).
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Oct 16, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
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IMHO you are trying to go to too many places in too short a time, spending too much on flying around. Do you have more money than time? So it would seem. What is your trip duration? You could spend that much time in any one of your multiple destinations and not "see it all." I've spent a total of about one year in Thailand and been to every place you mention (and to Hanoi and Hulong Bay). Trying to pack climbing into the trip is just another stretch of too much to do and too little time, again IMHO. I'l sure you will ignore this advice.
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 08:28am PT
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IMHO you are trying to go to too many places in too short a time, spending too much on flying around. Do you have more money than time? So it would seem. What is your trip duration?
I totally agree there are too many places listed here, that's why I put all the potential options out there and want to drill them down. The trip duration is about 3 weeks on the ground (after 24-36 hours of travel on each end to get to Bangkok), short trip but I'm a working dude so taking off for 2-3 months isn't an option.
However, hitting 2 locations (Ton Sai OR Chiang Mai along with Hanoi/Ha Long area) with 2-3 nights in BKK in a 20 day trip doesn't seem that crazy to me, does it?
While we don't have a ton of budget for the trip, $60-80 plane tickets around Thailand don't exactly break the bank...and yes, I'd rather spend a bit extra and fly instead of taking 24 hour stinky, unpredictable buses/trains - I traveled like that when I was younger, and with the short amount of time that's the only way to do it.
That said, Ton Sai/Railay seems CRAZY expensive (like $100+/night for a decent room or cabana with air con) WTF? Definitely out of touch with the rest of the country it seems...maybe just the season? Anyhow, this is definitely a bit of a deterrent unless someone has some good beta on low-cost lodging there.
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 08:31am PT
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Check out "the Gibbon experience" in Laos.
I heard about this from my buddy but he said it was good 5-6 years ago and now it's like $500/person for 2 days and extremely popular...looks awesome though!
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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With only about 3 weeks(?) I would stay put more and travel less. A lot of the bus travel kinda sucks and can get you much more puckered than climbing. Maybe just Thailand or just Vietnam?
Tonsai/Railay is far better climbing than the other areas, and due to it's comfortable hang, will be hard to leave no matter how long you plan. No good snorkeling there but the beach is nice.
You can take side trips to many other islands and could surely find one with good snorkeling. Koa Lao Liang (sp?) has good climbing and cool snorkeling in a kind of basic (sleep in tents on the beach) all-inclusive environment. You can book a trip from the climbing shop in Tonsai.
Chiang Mai is a fun city (much less overwhelming than Bangkok). Crazy Horse is mediocre climbing but a good excuse to get out into the countryside. I highly recommend renting a motorbike in Chiang Mai to cruise around/ get lost/ explore. Riding the moped to Crazy Horse will be more memorable than the climbing. Stop by the cavern you will see signs for.
I found Vietnam to be more interesting culturally but not as good for quality of climbing. Cat Ba is fun. Slo Pony takes boats to Lan Ha (sp?) Bay, adjacent to but supposedly less-touristy version of Ha Long Bay. Beautiful iconic karst formations everywhere. Cat Ba is another great place to rent mopeds! A good national park, cliff-side war bunkers, and OK inland climbing (Butterfly Valley) to explore.
If I get a chance I'll post some pics to get you psyched.
Have fun!
Super helpful - thanks! How long did it take you to get out to Cat Ba/where you want to be from Hanoi?
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Oct 17, 2014 - 09:23am PT
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I don't like where Bangkok has been going either. I would do train ride up to Chang Mai, Chang Rai and hit every village across to Viet Nam.
I wouldn't drag ropes and stuff on a first trip, pack super light. I saw a Japanese kid in an Akta village, he rotated one pair of socks and his diary. That was all he had. That's a little too light but having everything in a day pack would give you a lot of flxibility.
I love Laos. The most laid back country in South East Asia. Though Burma is cool too.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Oct 17, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
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OK. I'll be more specific. I would leave all climbing gear at home in the effort to go light. I don't think the climbing anywhere in SE Asia holds the least attraction compared to the incomparable climbing available in the U.S. So, while in SE Asia DO SE ASIA THINGS EXCLUSIVELY. Buses in Thailand come in all flavors and levels of accommodation so no need to totally dis on Thai bus experiences. That said, I always used the train when possible. Did the trip from Bangkok to Chiang Mai on train many times and stopped at every significant town along the way. I'd narrow it down further by going to either Thailand or Vietnam and not try to do both on this single trip. Thailand is easier so if you don't have lots of third world travel experience, that might tip the scale to Thailand.
Duffield seems to now what he's talking about and mirrors my line.
Duff, where's your picture taken? Laos?
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
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I would leave all climbing gear at home in the effort to go light. I don't think the climbing anywhere in SE Asia holds the least attraction compared to the incomparable climbing available in the U.S.
Appreciate the advice but after many trips to various places around the world I've found that including climbing adds some really great aspects to the trip like giving you something to do in the daytime, narrowing options and immediately exposing you to a community of people (locals and expats) with common interests. It also means that you aren't stuck in the tourist cycle of "see sights, tick off boxes, eat, drink, sleep repeat" so I think that's pretty non-negotiable. As much as carrying a rope and quickdraws does suck, I can't remember a trip (Argentina, Morocco or the Balkans) when I was upset that I did.
Narrowing the trip does sound like a good idea though and (as much as I don't like to admit it) I think leaving Vietnam out is probably smarter.
Also, I think the train from BKK to Chiang Mai sounds awesome, definitely would rather do that than fly - sounds like a way cooler experience, thanks for the heads up!
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fgw
climber
portland, or
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Oct 17, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
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"I don't think the climbing anywhere in SE Asia holds the least attraction compared to the incomparable climbing available in the U.S."
really? Some may find the variety in climbing to be the best part of the whole thing.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Oct 17, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
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Yes, My photo, is in Luang Prabang Laos.
ok. I sorta agree. Doing adventure related stuff does add a lot to a trip. But bear in mind this. It will indeed eat time. You may be fishing around for the crag for some hours. You may end up with a heroic walk back to whatever resembles civilization where you are. Your odds of the unexpected night out are increased. You need to adjust your must see/do objectives accordingly. Is your lady ok with a night in the jungle with wildlife?
I'm in mind of a bus we caught once, in the highlands of Luzon. There was only one bus a day, it came around 6am. The ride, was to be many hours. It was guaranteed to be crowded. If we messed up, got shouldered aside by the village women going to market, we might be riding on top with the chickens. We would arrive at the next stop, beat and we had something planned where we needed to be semi rested. We really needed a seat.
The play, was to meet the bus outside of town, at a place where it had to slow down and jump through the windows. Can't do that with a big bag.
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benbro
Social climber
San Francisco/South Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
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"I don't think the climbing anywhere in SE Asia holds the least attraction compared to the incomparable climbing available in the U.S."
really? Some may find the variety in climbing to be the best part of the whole thing.
Totally...and last time I checked limestone tufas are pretty hard to come by in the US, especially in January!
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