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Pete Dronkers
Trad climber
Dolores, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 26, 2014 - 05:00pm PT
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BLM is accepting public comment on this issue. I don't want to see these arches shut down to swings or any other type of roped enjoyment:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865609559/BLM-weighs-rope-ban-at-Corona-Arch-Gemini-Bridges.html
If you feel the same way, please drop BLM a note at the address or email address provided in the article. This could set a very bad precedent in terms of similar things in other places, maybe even slacklining.
It's terrible that people have died and been injured there, but I don't see it as any different from climbing accidents in places where they occur relatively frequently. Anyway, I'm going log a comment to preserve public access to public lands and recreation, but will be diplomatic about it.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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This is an interesting situation. I am certainly not in the camp that everything goes on public lands and I don't believe that banning rope swings in sensitive areas leads to the slippery slope of climbing restrictions.
Rock climbing is a skill activity with a long history on public lands. Rope swinging would seem to attract thrill seekers not needing to develop any expertise. I suspect that rope swinging can attract a rowdy crowd that might not mix well with other people visiting these arches.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:40pm PT
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I do not like to pass judgment on other peoples recreation. However I question the appropriateness of this activity. There is more impact beyond the obvious cratering of the occasional idiot. It is hard to enjoy the quiet beauty of a natural desert arch with 20 screaming teenagers swinging on a rope. If at all possible, a good wilderness visitor should be neither seen nor heard. The regs should promote that goal.
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thebravecowboy
climber
strugglin' to make time to climb
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:44pm PT
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I have avoided that place like the plague since the swinging really took off, but it seems to me that other user groups in the same part of Utah place greater burdens on the authorities as far as management and rescue go, and certainly inflict greater impacts on finite resources. I suppose historic precedent goes a long way to preserving a (hu)man's right to leave rubbery skidmarks and new sandy tracks deep in the cryptogam though.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
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I haven't been to these arches so I don't know the exact situation. But this sounds somewhat like the BASE jumping ban in Yosemite and elsewhere. Thousands of other visitors are impacted by the few engaged in these activities. I hate to see something that people enjoy get banned but there is the experience of everyone else to consider. I think the best solution is to share the resource and for example allow rope jumping 1 or 2 days a week, but the public lands agencies don't have the best track record in implementing these kinds of fair and common sense solutions.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:46pm PT
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Hey Pete! Sup Bud
I simply do not have enough information to make an informed opinion.
I do not know these arches or the area. I do not know what impact this activity has on the area or the people in it.
My default position on almost everything is to allow it until it becomes very very clearly a severe detriment to other people. More than an occasional nuisance to be sure. I'm very much for freedom. But I can see how these activities might have a very negative impact on other visitors. I just don't know if it actually does.
One thing I can say is that the risk/death issue is a non issue to me. I'm a climber I have no room to talk on that point.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:50pm PT
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Jon Beck has spoken for me. I would go one step further and ban all sales
of Monster and Red Bull within 50 miles of any NP, NM, or wilderness area.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 26, 2014 - 05:53pm PT
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it's an ugly farce that belongs in a carnival
Sounds just like rock climbing
But I do think you forgot another descriptor... fun, which applies to both.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Aug 26, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
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A common thread....fun, doesn't make it sound just like climbing to me.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 26, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
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I would go one step further and ban all sales
of Monster and Red Bull within 50 miles of any NP, NM, or wilderness area.
You forgot to include Go-Pros
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Aug 26, 2014 - 06:03pm PT
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Every time, except once, I've hiked out to Corona Arch there have been swingers (on top of the arch). There certainly was a lot of yelping and hollering, and casual hikers did seem to avoid walking near the arch for fear of getting hit. Most on lookers seemed to enjoy watching the shenanigans. I saw some rigs that looked solid, others sketchy.
The one time there weren't swingers I was able to go up to the top of the arch. There was pretty significant impact of the rigging on the rock.
Having said all that, I'm not sure how I feel. I was discouraged at the impact on the rock. I enjoyed being able to scramble up to the top of the arch which I couldn't do the other times.
I can't imagine how horrific it must be to be a witness to an accident. It is an area that has many family groups out there.
So, I just don't know...
Susan
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 26, 2014 - 06:21pm PT
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There are plenty of people who see climbers as an eyesore and think its crazy. People in glass houses and all.
What's the deal again with the lower Yosemite falls amphitheater? Plenty of climbs down there that I've never seen anyone on. Is it a gentleman's agreement that people will only climb there when the falls aren't flowing? But that's a good example of a good compromise IMO. People's view and pictures of the falls shouldn't have climbers in them(because its a relatively contained area and climbers would be very obvious), but if the falls aren't flowing there's no real impact and people should be able to climb.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Aug 26, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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I went to Corona Arch in March and the place resembled a circus carnival rather than a natural rock arch. I was with people from overseas and they were clearly disappointed that they couldn't get close to the arch due to all the stuff going on. The F bombs were really bad. I little respect for the other visitors would go a long way.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Aug 26, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
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Swings are for the playground . . . "wilderness" is not a circus.
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andy@climbingmoab
Big Wall climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 26, 2014 - 09:58pm PT
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Rope swings on arches just need to be banned. After the idiot frat boy video with great production value on Corona Arch was put up on youtube and got millions of hits, it was inevitable that a death was coming up soon. Didn't take more than a few months before someone cratered that was inspired but had no business doing it. The stakes are too high, and perceived point of entry to the activity are too low.
Unfortunately, the BLM is grouping climbing into the ban as well so it needs to be fought.
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thebravecowboy
climber
strugglin' to make time to climb
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Aug 26, 2014 - 10:48pm PT
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Did you say fight? Perfect timing!
Could we get a little anti-guvmint standoff going over this? Maybe some thuggy yokels could stand about with spanners and .45-70 lever-guns pointed generally toward The Man? They could mumble about how it's been a tradition in their family since the last (short) reproductive cycle...Cliven Bundy did recently announce that Gawd hath told him that the Fed needs to be "disarmed."
Can we get the motorized-use crowd in on it too - get that Phil Lyman posse involved - by having some hero (bozo) jump off the arch on a Razr tied to dual 11mil lines, screeching "FREEEDDOOOM!" whilst blasting sixguns at the sky/posters of Obama?
Sigh... I guess I'll write a letter, not that I even know what the hell to do with a zoo like Corona Arch. It is quite interesting, though, that thus far Mr. Bundy appears to have gotten what he wants. I wonder what my letter will get.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 27, 2014 - 12:21am PT
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Favor the ban.
BTW, does not prohibit climbing. Free soloing is fine.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Aug 27, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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I read through the BLM impact statement:
https://www.blm.gov/ut/enbb/files/Corona.Gemini_Temp_Restriction_EA_w_maps_-_08252014.pdf
Climbing activities and climbers are not mentioned as part of the impact to either location.
Corona Arch the problem is the rope swing. A handful of users take up the arch for hours. There have been complaints (around 40,000 visitors per year). It's a 1.5 mile hike to get there, so it must be disappointing to arrive and find a bunch of screaming rope-swingers all over the thing.
Gemini Bridges, the problem is:
1. Highline, set between the two rims, parallel to the bridges.
2. Rapelling from the bridges themselves.
3 Ziplining from rim to base.
"Visual Resources are an important part of the experience enjoyed by visitors to these areas" says the BLM. Bolts and webbing and damage to the rock has been reported to the BLM, both locations.
That's not right. These non-climbers make climbers look bad. In the short term it can be argued that the BLM is creating restrictions to climbing but in the longer term the real damage to climbing access will be from the increasing popularity of these non-climbing activities.
I'll write and I'll tell the BLM I support the ban, even though it appears that, from the map, a route of mine (not visible from Gemini Bridges, but oh well) may get closed: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/repo-man/107561633.
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Pete Dronkers
Trad climber
Dolores, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2014 - 12:02pm PT
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Lots of strong opinions. Anyway, what I wrote to BLM noted that there are bad apples out there that contribute to something of a circus environment, and that there could be a sensible solution that allows all user groups to benefit. I like the idea of allowing swinging on certain days. I just think there are enough arches that are off-limits in the park, that having one that remains open does represent a good balance.
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