I offer an alternative to mass spewing about Christianity


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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 15, 2014 - 01:00am PT
If there is any hint of self-righteousness or know-it-allness or presumption in this post, I apologize in advance, that is not the intended tone. But let's face it, no one's gettin' anywhere with the recent (and past) threads on Christianity. Too many people lobbing their opinions into the fray. Too many rabbit trails for such a complicated topic. Throw in your philosophical sound bite and run. It doesn't even have to be on topic.

I understand the value of a group discussion with multiple perspectives, but in this case, I believe no one is better for it. I'm writing this during the wee hours after a little nightcap so I may regret this in the morning but... Feel free to PM me if you'd like to have a sincere 1:1 email discussion with a Christian on whatever topic is bugging you. I think this would be time better spent than rattling off quotes and verses in a mass chaos of opinions.

Why should you trust me? You shouldn't. Absolutely not. No way jose. I'm an anonymous virtual voice, with no credentials, and I don't even have a personal photo or a TR on ST. If you have any interest in this at all, let me first refer you to the mature Christian in YOUR circle. But maybe you like this anonymity or maybe you don't know anyone like that or maybe you just inherently trust climbers (really?) Whatever the reason, you have an open door. Isn't this topic too important to NOT be talking about, no matter how painful or annoying it is?

I am just an average joe trying to make sense of this world like everyone else. I will not try to "convert" you, I'm not so vain to think I have such powers. I'm just willing to share how I came to reconcile (or not) some of the tough questions. I won't have all the answers, not even most of the answers, come to think of it, I have no answers at all... but I will share why I do the things I do and why I believe the things I believe. And maybe we'll both be a little richer for it.

So you ask, "who the hell are you?" I try to maintain privacy in cyberspace, but I will share that I'm just a typical middle class family man living in Long Beach CA, 45yo, who has been following Jesus since my late 20's. I'm a data analyst by profession meaning I approach things very methodically and it was no different with my faith. I've been primarily a trad climber for the past couple decades so of course I have a sordid past :) and I'm happy to share more in a more private setting. I wouldn't do this (and haven't) on just any forum, but I've cherished ST as a lurker over the years and this is my little way of participating.

Honestly, this will probably fall on deaf ears and that's fine by me. If I saw this, I think I'd high tail it to the nearest cliff too. But who knows. Here's to all of us being engaged in fruitful conversation.

in the face of the fury of the funk
Aug 15, 2014 - 07:25am PT
I would be a whole lot more intererested in a 2v2 b-ball match. Me and my boi Jesús versus you and whomever you can muster. PM'd.

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Aug 15, 2014 - 08:41am PT
Thanks Jawon. Nice offer.

Aug 15, 2014 - 09:12am PT
7th day people bang on our doors out here all the time with that offer. Haven't the heart to tell them they are about seventy years too late.

Social climber
Aug 15, 2014 - 09:19am PT
I'm just a typical middle class family man living in Long Beach CA, 45yo, who has been following Jesus since my late 20's

I have been a devout atheist since age five

and I don't feel any need whatsoever to invite anyone to talk to me

why do you?

Aug 15, 2014 - 09:30am PT
Has anyone else expressed interest in learning "Werner's Dog" meditation?

Hey man, it works. Works even better after 5 or 6 bong hits.

They say....



Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Aug 15, 2014 - 09:56am PT
Oooops....skimmed that OP a little too fast....

Actually, I'd say I'm more in Norton's camp...but still finding this theme of threads to be annoying.

Edit question about editing: Did you edit your OP? WTF?

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Aug 15, 2014 - 11:01am PT

I, for one, would (and sometimes do) PM those for whom I had a question, but didn't think the conversation had any particular worth for anyone else. I have, as I hope you know, a high enough opinion of your intellect and ability to express your views that almost every topic I discuss with you I prefer to do in virtual public, because I think others would want to know what you say.

Christianity, in contrast, strikes me as a topic where most of the discussions are personal, and I think Jawon's OP offers exactly what his title says: an alternative to mass spewing for those with a genuine interest to discuss the topic.

I joined Micronut's topic publicly for at least three reasons:

1. I try to join every depression-related topic because I've found a lot of climbers carry that burden, and I think my experience enables me to talk to other sufferers with credibility and empathy. That's why I ask anyone who wants to talk to PM me (I've even given out my cell number and gotten calls, for which I am grateful);

2. It bothers me when I see mischaracterizations of theological positions, which always surfaces on religious topics, and particularly irritates me when I read bigoted claims about the intelligence of any particular group; and

3. I know, and greatly admire, Micronut, and found the reaction to his thread missing the point of his offer.

I suspect if the OP were someone I didn't know, and the topic did not deal with depression in its subject, I would probably have paid no attention. I checked this topic in the hope that it said essentially what Jawon said, rather than more mass spewing. I say, good for Jawon.


Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Aug 15, 2014 - 11:04am PT
I have been a devout atheist since age five
I thought you posted in an earlier thread that you were in the seminary?

Aug 15, 2014 - 11:13am PT
I have been a devout atheist since age five

Impossible to do.

Atheist can only run their mouths and say there's no God.

But if they were truly an atheist their heart would immediately stop.

Everything manifest in the material world is part parcel of God.

Not even blade of grass can move without God moving it first.

Atheist are stupid, ignorant and arrogant to the complete real facts.

Atheists only have incomplete facts which they "Religiously" spout ......

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2014 - 11:43am PT
apogee -
Did you edit your OP? WTF?

No, my original post stands as originally submitted. Not sure what you are referring to.

Norton -
I have been a devout atheist since age five
and I don't feel any need whatsoever to invite anyone to talk to me
why do you?

I don't want to perpetuate the very thing I'm trying to avoid with this offer, but this is a valid foundational question that I'll try to quickly answer without inciting another multi-page thread on religion.

If your worldview is true, we all return to dirt. If my worldview is true, there is an eternal implication. That's my guess why many of us who believe in any sort of god may feel a greater need to talk about this. For me, it's not about winning an argument, it's simply about putting potentially THE single-most important decision of our lives on the table.

If you have no interest, I'm cool, I need to get back to reading some TR's anyway :)

lawrence kansas
Aug 15, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
Everybody is worried about where they are going but few mention where they came from. Where were you before you were born?

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 15, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
I was round-house kickin' my way outta my momma's uterus

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 15, 2014 - 08:31pm PT
Everybody is worried about where they are going but few mention where they came from. Where were you before you were born?

A seemingly profound question. We were born, and given souls.

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Aug 15, 2014 - 08:41pm PT
I can't say who said it or when, but someone said they abhorred what some other person had to say--but that they would defend to the death that other person's right to express it.

Hey, it's the new age. You really need to hear everyone.

EDIT: Hell, you probably need to find ways to get along with them.

Aug 15, 2014 - 09:09pm PT
I got an alternative, too.

Read some Herman Hesse and gain some true understanding of human nature before you aspire to understand this "God" being - whoever that may be.

You may get bogged down with the basic lesson.

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 15, 2014 - 09:32pm PT
Thanks Jawon . . . question: Are Christians better than Muslims?

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 15, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Good idea E

Aug 16, 2014 - 07:03am PT
Kalimon asked:
"Thanks Jawon . . . question: Are Christians better than Muslims?"

Of course not. However, all Muslims who reject Christ will be BURNING IN HELL FOR ETERNITY whereas all who accept Christs path will be in heaven. That's what I hear anyway. Unless you ask the Muslims, they understandably have a somewhat differing view.

That's why I'm sticking with "Werner's Dog style meditation......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 16, 2014 - 07:10am PT
NO Muslim rejects Christ. In Islam, Christ was one of the Prophets.

So now we are back to the "my way of following Christ is God sanctioned, and yours is not"....says the Christian Lutheran to the Christian Methodist.
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