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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 24, 2014 - 11:16am PT
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Oops.
(I am actually against capitol punishment. It is State hypocrisy. However, in a world where terrorists are released for hostages we need to execute some people very quickly. But the latest mishap in Arizona begs a reexamination of the death penalty.)
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:26am PT
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What amazed me about this episode, is the drug cocktail that was used.
In the past, executions have been done by using a process that is essentially general anesthesia, without the life support function: a drug to create unconsciousness, a drug to paralyze the breathing muscles----plus a drug to stop the heart.
In this case, they did something quite different: The gave a valium analog combined with a morphine analog. This is essentially a drug overdose, which works by suppressing the breathing reflex.
I would predict that the latter would prove problematic, due to the inherent differences in people, and their susceptibility to these effects.
In other words,
oops.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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If we're gonna do it (and there are definitely some times where it should be done), then we need to do it right.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:30am PT
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Josef Mengele would be impressed.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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The wifey, who has inserted more than her fair share of needles (professionally, I hasten to add)
was quite aghast at this incompetence. She could only assume the chumps could not find a vein.
As I noted, "Well what do you expect? That's gubmint health care for ya."
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, or In What Time Zone Am I?
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:52am PT
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Geez, my vet committed suicide in short order with the drugs she used on animals. I am against all forms of capital punishment, but it seems outrageous they can't get it right.
And yes I do feel for the victims, they did suffer, far more than their killers, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Susan
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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I kinda feel sorry for the Human Rights peeps now. Stories like this, are important to them, but they suck the oxygen from more compelling things, like the Boku Harem girls or the brutality of the Islamic State in Syria and Irak.
Prolly should send drones into the capital punishment precincts.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 24, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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Mr. Locker stated:
The dude probably suffered less than his victims...
exactly my first thought
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 12:12pm PT
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Back to hangings and firing squads or just let then sit in prison or let the victims families have them or let them all fight to the death on pay per view or put them all together on an island in the middle of nowhere to live off the land...I have great strength in my convictions
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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Jul 24, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Doctors aren't used to killing people but vets are. My GF can put down a Clydesdale nice and easy, having it lay down straight. You don't want the owners to see it gag and fall over sideways. This is the good stuff. When just plain fatal isn't enough...you need Fatal Plus ! Get the blue juice.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 24, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
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Most docs could probably tell you pretty well how to kill some one.
But they also take an oath to do no harm. Most of them interpret that to mean they can't oversee executions. So in at least some cases, you've got non-MDs overseeing these.
On top of that drug manufacturers that are based in Europe(non-death penalty Europe) often don't want to allow their drugs to be used in executions. So states have to go looking for less effective alternative drug cocktails.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:00pm PT
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The anti-death penalty crowd is seizing upon this incident as "botched". There is just as much evidence that this double murderer got a free dope ride his last 90 minutes.
It takes how long to run all the endless appeals for murderers? This is a failed system that has been rigged to prolong the lives of killers and sour the American people on state executions---all against the stated will of the American people and justice to the families of the victims.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
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Botched or not, the death penalty is fundamentally wrong.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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the death penalty is fundamentally wrong.
Not carrying out the law is the only thing wrong , and thereby putting the victim's families through hell for endless years.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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I see Ward, the law only matters when it conforms to your agenda.
Slavery was legal under the law at one time, so was segregated schools until some scofflaws ignored the law.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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capital punishment
SC seagoat, isn't that what the flight 93 hijackers wanted to do?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:29pm PT
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Slavery was legal under the law at one time, so was segregated schools until some scofflaws ignored the law.
Preventing murderers from being executed is not on the same moral and historical level as ending school desegregation and slavery---that's not even a nice try.
I mean , casting a convicted murderer in the same victimized state as a slave , or a denied schoolchild is just plain stupid, and typical.
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Psilocyborg
climber
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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I am not really for or against capital punishment...but I have ZERO sympathy for murderers. He was killed....I am not going to lose any sleep over it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2014 - 01:39pm PT
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You might have zero sympathy for murderers, but we do not administer the death penalty equitably in this country. You are far more likely to receive it if you are poor and not white.
And how many times has DNA exonerated convicts? Plenty of people get wrongfully convicted. Kind of hard to free them after execution,..
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jul 24, 2014 - 01:39pm PT
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Yes, Ward, the system is clearly designed to maximize the life of the condemned and prolong the suffering of the survivors. Of course it is.
It's not at all focused on ensuring that the current 4% innocence rate among the executed doesn't increase. Or that death is fairly applied regardless of race (hint: it's not).
And there in lies the rub. Regardless of how much cruelty a disturbing number of posters here would love to (have someone else) engage in, the question is this:
Is realizing your need for cruelty worth killing those innocent (and mostly black) people? About half of God's Country says HELL YES to that one.
Ah, well, keyboard blood lust requires no introduction.
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