Do first ascentionists have any rights?


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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 7, 2014 - 08:14am PT
I am sick and tired of people always worshipping FA's....

Balcarce, Argentina
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:17am PT
You're trolling in the right place this time, Wes.

Jul 7, 2014 - 08:18am PT
Ahhh, The's latest gem...thanks for posting

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:21am PT
Nope. No rights.

As a result, the third ascent can pull the bolts out entirely.

Then what?

Come on. You can go deeper than this.

Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:22am PT
Take a nap Wes, you'll feel better.

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 08:23am PT
I feel fine.

Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:30am PT
You said you were tired Wes.
Anyway, why not make a list of the routes that you feel need bolts and discuss it within your local community? Have you run out of stuff to climb?

lost, far away from Poland
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:37am PT
The great thing about a bolt is, you can choose to not clip it.


They took away my lead card when I skipped a bolt in my gym.

This sh!t is serious!

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:38am PT
have you ever put up a first ascent?
installed a sport route?


or has your climbing experience largely been formed by looking for "four-star" routes in a guide that shows where the route goes, includes an accurate bolt count, indicates the length of the route and not only gives you the overall difficulty but also where that "crux" is, along with providing details on how to get there and what you'll find.

what the FA establishes is a style that worked to create the route.

in the modern world, "route consumers" have little knowledge, interest or respect for the first ascent team, the "route creators."

those four shown in the image (you did get permission to use the image, didn't you? or did you exercise "your right" to just copy it off the internet?) have a series of rather amazing first ascents done in a style which was evolving over the time they first started climbing to what climbing has become today. I know all four of them, one has died, all approachable on what their intentions were. have you ever asked them what they were thinking?

one famously exhorts "just go out and climb" and forget about all this guide stuff. where would you be if you had no guides? is that your right too? the right to have a guide?

one still climbs at a very high level, you would hope to achieve,

one doesn't climb anymore.

they don't own the rock, the routes, the rules, they just climbed the routes with the boldness required by adopting a style that seems to require something more than just the physical capability to do the routes, it requires a mastery of the mental aspects of climbing, and a conviction that they could pull of the climb.

they wouldn't say you couldn't employee any style you want, they might look askance at the claim of an ascent of a route they did 40 years ago with a style that did not at least equal their own. after all, they did.

Trad climber
Guelph, Ontario, Canada
Jul 7, 2014 - 08:46am PT
A bunch of trad lines were sportified at one of my local crags last year without consulting with the FA. The most disturbing aspect was that it was implied on that approval was asked for, and had been granted. Pointing out that was not true got my posts deleted and I was banned by the admin.

Ironically, the FA said he might have been fine with it had he been asked, but has now suggested to me that I chop the bolts. Despite how I feel about this I've never done that and am not about to start now.

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 08:55am PT
So Ed... what you say is very reasonable..
I guess what youre saying is, it wouldn't be frowned upon if I retrobolt some routes put up by those 4 climbers you talked about? They did it in their style, now I can do it in mine? Great!!! Thanks Ed, I wish more people were like you!

Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:28am PT
A reminder for some:
that blog is total parody and satire.

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2014 - 09:29am PT
^ who are you to say that? Please don't speak on my behalf, as you are wrong and slanderous.

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:35am PT
First ascentionists should be flogged and banned from insurance and healthcare.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:36am PT
Another hilarious blog post Wes, so sorry that everyone does not see it for the parody it is. Maybe someday you will be accepted as a satirist, it is just not happening yet.

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:37am PT
The first ascentionist may be due respect.

Rights - no. The concept of "rights" has been stretched beyond recognition. You can't have rights to a route when it isn't your property.

We are all guests on public or private property. There are very few crags that are owned by climbers, and those are owned by a group, not a single person. The first ascentionist should always consider the owners rights and consider those that may follow, the wider community.

As time marches on and many first ascentionists are no longer here, it will be interesting to see how these conversations evolve.
Todd Eastman

Bellingham, WA
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:43am PT
Update old fixed gear without adding any more.

The FA didn't use old rotting gear...

Seamstress, would we have to use tied hooks on the Trap Rock?

Jul 7, 2014 - 09:47am PT
Do troll bloggers have any rights?

Big Wall climber
So Far East I might as well be dead
Jul 7, 2014 - 09:49am PT
A right is an agreed upon allowance to do something.
It is not the ability to prevent others from doing something, that is tyranny.

Only people with a grossly overinflated sense of self- worth would assume that their actions are infallible and not subject scrutiny, reinterpretation, or deviation.

Do your FA. Say what you want about those that follow you. Chop bolts if it makes you feel better, but wouldn't it be better style to just go do another FA?

Grow, evolve, gain wisdom. That is the path of an enlightened mind. Flinging sheet on those that follow is what primates do.

They have the right to remain silent, but so few choose to do so.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 7, 2014 - 10:08am PT
sure, you can go an re-bolt anything you want...

but I doubt you'd be able to withstand the consequences, and I'm sure that your work wouldn't last very long...

and I highly doubt that you are hard enough to actually do the bolting (though it would be very fun to see your ass busted for using a power drill)

go forth and troll! if you actually even got outside and did what you threatened it would be infinitely more impressive than you ability to sit in front of a terminal and type in your wet-dream fantasy, a fantasy that you are incapable of realizing, and that you actually have no interest or desire in realizing.

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