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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 16, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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I know some of you must be involved with rope access, cell tower, and or other types of work that is made up of heights. Im interested in getting into something in the nature of rope access. Im not necessarily interested in going to college right out of the school of higher edgucation as they call it, but Im not against it. I also dont mind rough necking it either. So lets hear it, What do you do, are you climbing more than working, is the money enough to bum around and live off, and how did you get there?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 16, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
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There's been several threads on this subject over the years...keep searching past threads...
Pay isn't horrible, but it's a pretty transient lifestyle, working jobs for extended periods of time in weird places. There are several professional certs (i.e. SPRAT) that are going to be helpful, too.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Dec 16, 2013 - 07:32pm PT
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I've been working Rope Access gigs since 2009. You'll need a SPRAT or IRATA cert which will run you ~$1500 for a 40 hour course + assessment. If you have reasonable rope/self rescue skills try to go direct entry to a level 2 certification. Some places will allow you to do this even without good documentation of 500/1000 hours (sprat/irata). It is worth it, you'll have a ton of trouble getting hired as a level 1. You might as well write noob on your forehead. The industry is very project oriented so expect feast and famine and go on some rad roadtrips when you're not working.
I can't speak for the states, all the work I've done is in Canada. Pay ranges from $20 up to $40 for supervisors. You will have a better time if you have trade skills, fibreglass skills (for windmills), or NDT testing certifications. It is possible to hack it with just rope skills, but you will spend a lot of time without work, whereas an ultrasonic weld inspector will never want for work and pull in a respectable salary. Luckily, you can get fibreglass or NDT skills in a reasonable amount of time, whereas being a journeyman trade isn't really a skill you can develop in a year.
Ropeworks.com is the industry leader in training. I would recommend them if you are close to Reno, Houston or Alaska.
ASNT.org is the place to start looking at NDT.
edit: http://www.skyclimberwind.com/ is hiring for next year. They were willing to offer apprenticeship in fibreglass which would be a very useful skill and is easier to aquire/develop than NDT certs / tradesmanship. I don't believe they have a rope access division, their work will be done on platforms under fall protection. Still, a decent gig for a climber and a great learning opportunity.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 16, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
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Good info. Thanks Ben.
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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
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So what your saying is that rope access is a good thing to have, but without another skill of some sort wether it be fiberglass or rig welding, there might be some trouble with finding work? Also how would direct entry as a LVL 2 work? Sorry for all the questions, you just kind of drowned me in information.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Dec 16, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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Sorry, after I wrote that I realized some of it might be gibberish to the uninitiated.
There are two governing bodies within rope access. If you are planing on staying stateside get a SPRAT ticket. For international work you'll eventually want IRATA but you can easily recertify as an IRATA tech later. SPRAT has the other (albeit dubious) advantage of only requiring 500 hours between levels.
A Level 1 is a trainee or gopher, and is allowed to work on constructed rigging but technically not supposed to rig anything without supervision of a L2 or L3. A level one can do a basic rescue (of someone in descent on a system) and construct very basic systems.
A level 2 is trained in more complex rigging and rescues (someone who is stuck in a chest ascender or rope anchored to two points creating a loop).
A level 3 is a supervisor. You could just be the head monkey on site, but more often than not you'll be dealing with clients, doing hiring/firing, planning inventory, planning workscopes and writing safety assessments, managing productivity etc.
Technically to do direct entry to level 2 you need to show previous experience on a 2 rope system. SPRAT is notorious for being lax (not ropeworks though!) so you may be able to squeak in, and believe me it will make the difference especially if you are coming to the table without trade skills. It will at least separate you from the pack. Many companies are reluctant to hire level 1s depending on the complexity of the work for fear of ending up with techs who are overly green and need to be babysat. If you can produce documentation for 500 hours on a 2 rope system SPRAT will let you go to L2 providing you have skills. Be sure to get references who can back up those 500 hours because evaluators occasionally call them. Some guys I know claimed to have done routesetting on a 2 rope system...
You will eventually find work without trade skills, but it may take a while. Consider taking an apprentice job either as an NDT tech or a fibreglass tech even if it isn't on rope. Of the NDT disciplines go for UT first. The courses run about $1000 for a week then youll have to do 6 months of in field work and finally pass an exam. Do an apprenticeship in NDT even if the pay is sh#t. I turned down a $14/hr UT apprenticeship so I could go freeze my ass off in the great white north for $30/hr last january. In july I missed out on a job that paid 140k for 6 months because I dont have a UT ticket.
I have been able to hack it without trade skills, but I am pursuing NDT and fibreglass when time/projects allow to minimize my downtime. There are tons of projects that are just simple installations or inspection but then again there are plenty of monkeys.
Any more questions just ask...
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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
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Damn, so many questions.
Alright, so first off what exactly is a two rope system? I have never heard that term before. Also do the companies you work for put you in hotels while away at jobs or are you responisble for your own living arrangements while "on the job"? To add to the pile of confusion, I looked at the NDT.org site, there are so many fields! Do you have your rope cert (level?) as well as your NDT (level?), which one came first? Ill assume that UT has something to do with destructive testing, what about college, can all of these be attained without a college degree, are GEDs frowned upon in this industry as well?
Time frame until one can make enough to live off after training?
That wasnt a very well organized range of questions, but thats all I get down before ten more popped into my head.
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Dec 17, 2013 - 01:40am PT
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Dont need rope access to be a Turbine tech or a cell tower tech. For cell towers you just need to be COMTRAIN certified. Cost 850$ though some companies will hire you and pay for it. Www.wirelessestimator.com might help with any questions you have.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Dec 17, 2013 - 10:05am PT
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Rope Access is done using a two independently anchored systems. This reduces the chances that you'll die because your ropes were cut or melted or because you thought you were safe to unclip and start walking around. It doesn't take long to get used to it.
Any company worth working for will pay for your accommodations and give you a stipend when you are out of town. Sometimes you'll get a cash stipend and the discretion to spend (or hoard) it as you see fit, other times you'll be put up somewhere and may have to share with your co-workers.
UT is Ultrasonic testing and it is still under the umbrella of non destructive methods. I say go for this first because of the abundance of postings for rope access UT work. If you go this route plan to spend a significant time at refineries, pipelines, power plants.
All of this can be done without a college degree. You'll need to refresh your math skills if you do UT, it requires trigonometry and a basic understanding of logarithms.
Skamoto is right, you don't need rope access for tower work, but there is a reason tower work is f*#king dangerous. I did cell tower work for a couple of summers and saw lots of crazy sh#t and too many people missing fingers to be stoked. Fall protection is a course that people do in an afternoon, COMTRAIN in 2 days and rope Access is 5 days where 75% of that is spent on rope. Also, if you do tower work via fall arrest systems you have to climb down at the end of the day. Rope techs get to rap.
Many companies do wind turbine work from baskets, so you also don't need rope access for that. That being said, the rope access companies that work on wind turbines tend to pay ~$10/hr more.
Becoming an IronWorker would also be a good way to go, but for f*#ks sake be careful. I was on high angle rescue duty this summer and the ironworkers were basically never attached to anything when they were connecting steel or connected so loosely that they'd take a killer pendulum.
Good luck!
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Dec 17, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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Ben you are correct. Working on cell towers has freaked me out off and on. I see way to much stupid dangerous stuff. We do however get to rap off at the end of the day. Except one person who has to take down the rigging. Depends on your Forman too. Im looking to be done with towers and get into rope access work myself. Cell work is super easy though znd pays really well.
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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
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So do you think cell towers would be worth doing for a while out of highschool to get some money together before I get NDT and rope access training? Would the Hours count towards my rope access?
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ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
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Dec 17, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
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Would the Hours count towards my rope access?
Only if you are using a two rope system and it's documented and signed.
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Dec 17, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
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You would not earn any hours towards rope access if you work on cell towers.guaranteed. but its worth getting into. Im making 14-1700 a week depending on hours. Its a good way to save up $$ fast.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Dec 17, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
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Skamoto, you need to rig your raps as pull-throughs then everyone gets to rap!
Take the tower work if you can get it, just keep an eye out. We almost got smoked on a lift because the cretin of a ground guy accidentally girth hitched a section of tower missing the crossmember. It was attached to another sling but swung wildly when the girth hitch slipped off. Thousands of pounds of steel will f*#k your sh#t up!
If you are doing tower work on a single rope it shouldn't qualify... Again, SPRAT is more lax in their direct entry process, and some companies specifically will just push guys through.
If you can get tower work take it. If you can get wind turbine work, even better. Rope access has better penetration into the wind market and fibreglass skills will get you work even if you become a lowly level 1 rope access monkey.
If you go the ironworker route, take a peek at the older guys and consider the toll on your body. Unions have good med benefits but you'll need them. Even for rope access, consider how long you want to be working in a harness.
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skamoto
Mountain climber
coalinga ca
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Dec 17, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
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Lol ben im sure everyone would love to do it that way. Where not allowed to leave anything on the tower though so someone has to bring down the slings and we cant just pull the rope either it gets stuck very easy especially on guy towers so you have to have one guy down climb with it tied to his back. Sounds like you stacked towers? That would be fun. We just fly the antennas and RU's and run cable on towers already built.
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Ben909
Trad climber
toronto
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Dec 17, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
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We never left anything on the tower using that method, just ran the rope around a crossmember or similar and padded as necessary. Use a towel for padding and clip it to the biner. As for not getting it stuck, we usually pulled from afar with attention to the wind direction. Never had to retrieve a rope but also wasn't rapping super tall guy towers.
Stacking towers was fun, but I've never felt so completely vulnerable sitting directly under a piece being flown in. We also swapped out a ton of antennae and dishes on angled haul lines which was fun. One time we were bolting dishes onto a concrete water tower to eliminate the need for a new steel tower and got to run around on ropes anchored to beam rollers. That was f*#king awesome!
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Dec 17, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
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Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
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So I guess ill try finding a company that will train me and pay for it? sounds like that's the general consensus. Do any of these companies not hire due to having a GED instead of a diploma? I'm 17 but I see no point in staying in high school after I turn 18, so I'm planning on testing out and start working as soon as possible....good idea, bad?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Dec 17, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
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"I'm 17 but I see no point in staying in high school after I turn 18, so I'm planning on testing out and start working as soon as possible....good idea, bad?"
Finish High School, one way or the other. Without it, your life is gonna be unbelievably difficult.
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