picking up "stuff" at the Tenth Facelift, a TR

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Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2013 - 01:39am PT
Tenth annual Facelift - a TR

Ed Hartouni

I've been volunteering for the Yosemite Facelift since 2005, it's a wonderful time for me, visiting with friends who also volunteer, and being able to just walk around the Valley with no climbing agenda.

Just out to see the sights and pick up some trash.
It's a time I reserve to give something back for all the things that the Valley has given to me.

Since 2005 the amount of trash we've been picking up has seemed to decline. It turns out that about 2.5 pounds of trash per volunteer hour is a rough constant over the years. This includes the projects removing large amounts of old infrastructure. I don't know how much copper cable weighs, but it's a lot… and one of those years we moved quite a bit…

SteveW, beast of burden… Facelift 2008

While moving the big stuff has always been the glory… more and more we've been picking up the "small stuff" or if not more, it seems to be a constant.

This year I did a lot of solo pickup, giving me lots of time to think. Here is some of the infamous, and ubiquitous trash we pick up:


It seems that every pullout along the Valley loop we find this sort of thing.

By the river under a boulder…

…at the Bridalveil Falls pullout

everywhere:

While the piles of trash we used to find are mostly gone, the amount of pee and poo paper we find seems to be a constant.

What's going on here? Will we be forever picking up this stuff, year in and year out?

While picking up trash along Rt. 140 with Boodawg and the lovely Lisa we find much the same… later on in the week I'm out with Dr. F and we're finding the same stuff.

Fact is that people are just going to stop when they want too. Imagine the infrastructure to accommodate everyone's bathroom needs, porta potties? real flush toilets, in every turnout? 'cause every turnout is used as a latrine in this most beautiful of places. Obviously the solution is not to install that much infrastructure.

But the only other way I can think of eliminating this trash, something like 5000 lbs a year, is to not let people stop where ever they want. Zion has a system of buses to move people around, point A to point B. I would imagine the problem with the impromptu latrine is much reduced there.

A bus system during the "high period," with no private cars allowed would certainly reduce the problems at the turnouts.

Of course I don't see that happening in Yosemite.

But then, do we climbers become the Dalits, the untouchable caste who deal with cleaning up? The tourists have a very strange view of who we are, the trash pickers, there to clean up after them. We must have done something bad to play the role we do, picking up some of the things we do can't be voluntary.

I'd like to know what the NPS plan is to address this issue. I haven't heard anything about it. We have the Merced River Plan, were the quota of people has to be established that fulfills the requirements of the Wild and Scenic River Act.

I had an idea when I was picking up some of the stuff I did, after gagging, that the quota limit would be at the number of visits for which we didn't find any of this stuff at the turnouts, the course of nature being sufficient by itself to clean up the mess without the need for our intervention.

I understand that the NPS is laboring under a number of impossible expectations in Yosemite as well as elsewhere. I don't know if they are able to understand the problem and formulate a solution consistent with their mandate. And perhaps we climbers should be happy to clean up that stuff, an indulgence to the NPS for our sins under their rule.

Will we ever see a time when this trash ceases to exist?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Oct 22, 2013 - 01:48am PT
Ed, thanks for the work you do on this.

I can't speak for all trash, but addressing the poop issue, here is another thought:

consider the average person coming into Yos who is not particularly familiar with the layout. They've been in a car for hours. They may have kids.

Where are the bathrooms? Can they park to access them? From any particular point, is there any way to know how to get to them, and how far away they are?

It's great to have a place as big as Yos, where you know where everything is, but if you don't, it can be a daunting and frustrating experience, I'd think.

In terms of trash in a variety of places, could this perhaps be a call for additional trash containers?

Sure, it would be nice to have everyone do what they should, but how many decades of defeat are required to consider innovation?

Nonetheless, thanks for your contribution, and that of everyone else who does this sort of work for our public lands.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Oct 22, 2013 - 01:56am PT
E gads, not bare handed-surely not? Good job gentlemen and ladies!
BooDawg

Social climber
Butterfly Town
Oct 22, 2013 - 01:57am PT
Thanks for your posting and comments, Ed. As Lisa, you and I scoured turnouts along Hwy 41, we talked of such things and, as you say, came up with no realistic solution. Yet spending quality time with you and the rest of the crew at Yellow Pines and at the evening gatherings by the Visitor Center, perhaps it's an opportunity and an honor for us to gather there, annually, and to reconnect and to give back to the place which has given us so much and still offers more to those who come now for most of the same reasons, if you can call climbing reasonable...

As Allen Steck said, "We do not deceive ourselves that we are engaged in an activity that is anything but debilitating, dangerous, euphoric, kinesthetic, expensive, frivolously essential, economically useless, and totally without redeeming social significance. One should not probe for deeper meanings."
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 01:59am PT
Interesting questions, Ken(M), and good comments, Ken B. As to diapers and poop, perhaps the maps given at the entrance stations should show the location of roadside facilities. I don't think that excuses the diapers, but the human excrement caused by desperation may lessen.

Although I only started Facelifting in 2009, my own observations of litter lead me to think that most litter results from one of three causes:

1. Selfish laziness. We won't do much about that because they never get caught. I've picked up a staggering number of cigarette butts over the years, each of which falls into this category.

2. Ignorance. There, we can at least alert the Park users to the need to dispose of waste properly and where they can do so. A little convenience doesn't hurt of the convenience encourages virtue. Sad to say, though, some of that ignorance appears to be cultural; not everyone has grown up with the ethic that littering is bad. Only immersion in a different value system will cure that.

3. Inadvertence. I've had papers fly out of my car on the freeway and disappear before I could stop and try to retrieve them. It was my bad for storing them where, say, an open window could allow them to fly out, but, again, not much one can do. A few years ago, scuffyb found the place where RV mirrors go to die in the Valley. I'm quite certain the owners never intended to remove them, much less intentionally dump them there. I've picked up lots of hub caps and similar automotive debris (usually broken mirror parts) over the years, too.

I suspect I've listed the causes in order of contribution to litter. I am convinced most litter originates intentionally. That said, the suggestions you make won't hurt, be we need an attitude adjustment to really stem the problem.

John
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:58am PT
Fact is that people are just going to stop when they want too. Imagine the infrastructure to accommodate everyone's bathroom needs, porta potties? real flush toilets, in every turnout? 'cause every turnout is used as a latrine in this most beautiful of places. Obviously the solution is not to install that much infrastructure.

Yeah.. therein likes the problem. People traveling are going to need to stop at some point. You can't put a porta-john at every turnout. They could, however install more trash-cans and "leave-no-trace" signage at the worst pull-offs to clue people in IMO. Probably no budget for the pick-up though.
Barbarian

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Every year I make a "pilgimage" to Tuolumne, stopping en route at Olmstead Point. I have scoured that parking lot to perfection for years. I know each time that my actions go against the useless tide...there are no trash cans at Olmstead. The trash dropped there only stays for a short time until the wind spreads it throughout the high country.

Of course, I understand: if you put a trash can there, you also have to schedule someone to pick up the trash - perhaps several times a day.

And so it goes. I will continue to make my annual pilgrimage...and hope that 364 others are doing the same on their chosen day.

BTW - this year I picked up 6 bobby pins in various places in that lot. Who still uses bobby pins?
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:29am PT
Thanks for taking your personal time to volunteer! So sad to see so much literal poop out there. I am all for a mandatory Valley Shuttle System. Like Zion, Yosemite Valley is small enough and compact enough to make it feasible. I also would like to see the NPS not allow any cars in the Valley and instead give every person who enters the Valley a bicycle to ride instead. Damn the old and infirm.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:30am PT
We are not dalits. We are devoted...

...to cleaning up after ignorance, the ignorance of people who, as John M mentions, are at their wit's end and their patience's end in finding a potty place for the passengers. The turn-out "solves" their immediate need but creates a problem.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

As climbers we are rungs above the typical ignorant tourist on the visitor appreciation ladder, I feel, and the NPS knows this. I feel that way and always have since I noticed the care with which the climber usually treats the Park. Our sh#t gets hauled now, as we have become more numerous. This is of course the polite and sanitary thing to do, and is now mandatory. Plus we don't have to climb through a hail of turds on big walls.

And so, just as big brothers look after little ones and pick up their messes, we are doing pretty much the same thing, enjoying our companions at the same time and enjoying free camping and showers.

It's a win-win for everyone, really. Our self-esteem raises, the NPS breathes easier, and the tourist can go his ignorant, but hopefully a resolve to check that free map a lot closer the next visit.

Don't even try to tell me you never ever took a dump where you ought not to have taken one. And how many did it in exactly the same dire mood--GOT TA GO NOW, MOM!

Cosi fan tutti--everyone does it.

You can tell the ones who haven't learned that urgency outweighs politesse, they have constipation written all over their faces.



Fish Finder

Social climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Ed


as always it is great to see you at Facelift



as far as all the crap goes


Eat, Drink and be Merry seems to be the theme of vacationers

Its kind of like a primal instinct to go in the Great Outdoors

Education would go a long way , but how do you do that without creating more litter(pamphlet) or signage.



Edit: Mouse ..... you took a shower?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 22, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Last year at Facelift.

Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Oct 22, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Ed great to meet you and great thread here. Don't have an answer on the turding problem except for eduation - it goes a long way.

I'll have to 2nd your statement as it was nice not to have an agenda:

it's a wonderful time for me, visiting with friends who also volunteer, and being able to just walk around the Valley with no climbing agenda
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
I recently hiked part of the JMT and it was very disturbing to see the amount
of unburied or minimally buried poo and paper often mere feet from the trail.
It is somewhat understandable that tourons in the Valley do it but one
would think JMT hikers would hold themselves to a higher standard. The
final straw was on the descent from Whitney where some sh!theads left their
WAG bags by the side of the trail!
jstan

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
During one poop run on the upper falls trail I found paper and poop stuffed into a retaining wall about eye level. Pulling it out was a memorable experience. This last Facelift Tom Rohrer and I found deposits at Pohono virtually in the water. This was clearly ignorance.

Toilet paper outlasts feci by years. Which suggests what I think is an improvement. When the worst happens, use a rock. Here in the desert we have only cholla so you will occasionally see people running desperately toward an outhouse..

The wag bags on Whitney really are the worst. I carried a bunch down once. Was hard to keep from wretching. When doing Whitney you have to have perfume to wipe under your nose.

Edit:
Whenever picking up where people are not all inside of cars, I get thanked and more generally cars beep their horns. Did El Cap meadow once and three or four people started running around picking up too. In one case a fellow came by twice and thanked me both times.

A lot of the stuff has been there ten years or more. If no one picks it up it would be there for fifty more. Trash is where it's at if you want to have an impact. New routes? Not so much.

Getting one or more calls a week now from people here wanting to pitch in. Facelift isn't the only place where it is growing.

Edit2:
There are people on ST willing to be "badass". I thought the concept might benefit from a little better definition.
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
Thanks Ed for this great topic.

"But then, do we climbers become the Dalits, the untouchable caste who deal with cleaning up? The tourists have a very strange view of who we are, the trash pickers, there to clean up after them. We must have done something bad to play the role we do, picking up some of the things we do can't be voluntary."

I felt this way as well during past Facelifts..... Unfortunately, I've missed the last couple. I hope to make more of them in the future!

Erik
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
Here in the desert we have only cholla so you will occasionally see people running desperately toward an outhouse..

John, I need to remember not to have my mouth full of coffee when I read your posts. My nose, desk and throat are recovering, but I still am having trouble restraining my laughter.

John
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
My local Park playground is Lassen National Park and for a National Park it has very low visitation .
In the park, every big trail head parking lot has a man made (non- flush) bathroom and plenty of bear proof trash cans.

For the amount of visitation that Yosemite has, i find it irresponsible that the Apron parking lot does not have a bathroom.

This last Facelift, i picked up over 6 pounds of poo & pee paper in the boulders above the Apron parking lot......)-;

It also would be nice to have more visible (smaller) trash containers in the parking lot .


cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:14am PT
I think spending a day or two per year picking up trash (including) tp is a small price to pay for the privilege of having car access around the Valley. As gross as it is, this poop problem is generally limited to a hundred feet of roadside pullouts.

Imagine for a moment some poor guy driving into the Valley after eating something that bedeviled his bowels. He has no idea where the next bathroom is, but he knows for sure that he will schit his pants in the next 3 minutes if he keeps driving. So he pulls over, runs behind the nearest tree or boulder, and drops a steaming pile in the nick of time.

Now you can't really call that bad behavior. It was an emergency. When you gotta go you gotta go. I think most folks these days would prefer a toilet with a seat and are generally weirded out by going potty in the woods.

Thus I think that there will always be pooping at the pullouts. Nobody wants to crap their pants. Perhaps if a few potties were installed at key locations along the loop road (and signs saying "restrooms ahead 300 yards) there would be much less roadside crapping. But perhaps it isn't really necessary. Who knows, maybe that 100 foot sprint from the car was that person's first up close wilderness experience?

Over they many Facelifts I have attended, I have seen evidence at the pullouts of true desperation- folks wiping themselves not with tp but with hats, socks, t shirts, and of course- the park brochure. As I picked up these items with my grabbers I had myself a small chuckle and was silently pleased to have scored a bit of trash many times heavier than regular tp.
scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:58am PT
More bathrooms and/or portapotties are needed, surely.
Consider, though, that for many people the source of outdoor pooping
information is a Charmin TV ad featuring bears with TP stuck to their butts.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2014 - 11:19am PT
in today's NYTimes OpEd piece by Timothy Egan Grand Tour of the Self

he writes about "selfie sticks"

"The stick looks like the kind of tool used by convicts to pick up roadside litter"


which confirms my impression of the crowds in the Valley that view us at the FaceLift...
it would be nice if the NPS could help change that sterotypical view with better information about what and who are attending to the pickup.

Of course it would be even nicer if we had much less to pick up.
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