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D'Wolf
climber
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Aug 22, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
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Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
While I certainly don't condone anything that's going on over there, evidence is lacking for sarin gas.
None of the photo of video footage shows aid workers using any form of protective barriers while assisting the dead or injured. We know from the 1995 attack in Japan that sarin is definitely toxic well after deployment and Japanese aid workers wore protective barriers to prevent coming in contact with the chemicals that remained on the victims.
This could be nothing but propaganda to prompt some sort of action from countries like the U.S. and France since everyone has basically chosen to stay out of the fray.
Thom
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Aug 22, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
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The headline about the killed children is a sure sign we are about to go to war. The surest way to manufacture outrage and manipulate public opinion in support of war is to show pictures of slaughtered children. Remember the children allegedly killed in their incubators in Kuwait?
Why don't we see pictures of children killed by drone attacks, or malnutrition as a result of US mandated sanctions? Because these would not support the current US agenda.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 22, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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Barry is soooo concerned that his ambassador to the UN, (Samantha Power) couldn't be bothered with showing up for a UN emergency Security Council session on the matter today.
No explanation on what other matter could be more pressing was forthcoming.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 22, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
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Ron, dude, get friggin grip, you blow around like a weather vane.
Benghazi is a veritable Disneyland compared to Syria. No one wants to go in - its a proxy war by design and no one is interested in going in because the odds are good it will further devolve from localized nightmare to an uncontrollable regional debacle with decades of fallout here at home.
Everyone wanting to rush in better be prepared for a long and painful tango of unexpected consequences and that's why the Obama crew is mewling and mealy-mouthing this issue until the last possible minute.
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sharperblue
Mountain climber
San Francisco, California
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Aug 22, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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IN case you missed it, we've been at war with Russia for the past 150 years. This is all about shutting down Russian controlled oil pipelines and warship access to the Mediterranean. 'Arab Spring' continues right on schedule.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Aug 23, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
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Get in their Obama and finally wipe this POS out ..
If I know Obama he is already planning it out..
radical do you ever read your won spew?
you havent a clue about obama let alone "knowing" him.
what you know is a carefully crafted persona that the democrats rolled out to get your vote.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 23, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
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These are the drumbeats of war...
DMT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Oh Willy McBride it all happened again.
and again, and again, and again, and again,
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Aug 23, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Obama is a media master (one reason he got my vote).
He also lacks the short term memory loss of those wishing to rush in and wipe out the allege purveyors of WMD'S within the Syrian leadership.
First thing Obama does after receiving intel of the alleged use of sarin gas is to solicit the support of the UN in condemming this action.
I hope he uses the same methodology he 'approved' to remove Bin Laden.
Covert actions by UN backed teams are the answer for the removal of any criminal government, if the facts are there.
If McCain were in office, we'd have our soldiers dying on Syrian ground today.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Aug 23, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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Honestly why do we care when we have starving children and issues of our own at home? Is our government voted in by the world or us? Are they there to serve the world or us? Sure it's a travesty that people got gassed on the other side of the globe but that kind of sh#t happens all the time all over the world. Why do we need to care this time, or the other time, or any time?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 23, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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We will never, so long as we live, see American forces of any size invade Syria. A few smart bombs - maybe. Even some drones, since we'll have a surplus of them if we ever actually clear out of Afghanistan. But there's no way to profit (no oil) from invading Syria, so we don't go.
The rest of the world will talk a good game but it's very unlikely anyone will risk their own soldiers and no way will they spend multi-billions on some place the world doesn't give jack sh#t about. With no mega resources for us to swipe, no business for us to partake in, warring factions from hell, and an Islamic culture to boot, I doubt anyone will do anything dramatic. Who would it ever be but us?
And I'm told by people in the know that Iraq was the last US invasion. Even with us boosting most of their oil, we still went bankrupt though some companies like Haliburton came out shining.
The few countries who have the dough and infrastructure to pull off an invasion would never spend their money on Muslims. Good or bad is not the point here, sad to say. It's just not something countries will do. They'll keep their own funds and the Arabs can sort out their own affairs. Or not. It's tragic that the kids have to suffer from hideous stuff like that gassing. For those doubting the gassing actually happened, look at this awful video.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130822&_r=0
Perhaps it's not serin gas, but it's not perfume either.
JL
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Aug 27, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
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Pud said: "If McCain were in office, we'd have our soldiers dying on Syrian ground today." We have no idea about that. Looks like President Obama is going with the tied and true Bush method...well, only part of it it appears.
"President Barack Obama, sure to fall short of getting explicit U.N. approval for any military strikes against Syrian strongman Bashar Assad’s forces and facing potential divisions inside NATO, has instead been assembling allies and partners in a coalition of the willing that recalls the Iraq War.
And where then-President George W. Bush at least got Congress to authorize him to use force against Saddam Hussein, Obama shows no sign of asking lawmakers to do so, preferring instead to engage in “consultations” with key players."
Time will tell. I can see this turning into a fait accompli against Iran in short order as well. Perhaps Obama will call it the "Middle Eastern 2 for 1 deal", or "like 2 peas in a rotten pod", or the much simpler "Spin the wheel, get 2 deals". It could be more likely that he'd coin it "OPERATION WORLD PEACE". Who could possibly argue against that? Only a total douchnozzel.
It will be interesting to see what extent Congress gets consulted. I'm sure that our President, AKA the "Bystander-in-chief", who is a constitutional scholar you know, would not violate the war powers act and take us to war without a congressional mandate. Right?
Where are all the haters of Israel complaining about the over 100,000 fatality's in Syria? They seem awful quiet about these serious atrocities. It's OK to bitch on Jews killing a single Palestinian kid protecting themselves, to call them all kinds of vile things, but they don't step up and say a damned thing about the terrible loss of innocent lives in Syria? Times like these I miss Fattrad being here and schooling the ST Israel haters.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Aug 27, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
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The Sryian army has the rebels ... uh excuse me, the activists ... on the ropes and now the plan is to take out their air force and massively arm the rebels/activists with CIA assistance, so the war will last a few years longer, a few more tens of thousands will die, but the outcome will be the same. As Nietzsche said, "Beware of those in whom the urge to punish is strong.”
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 27, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
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...Get in their Obama and finally wipe this POS out ...
...There will be no troops on the ground.
You can not let dictators gas their people ...
What kind of as#@&%e are you
Kind of guy who would watch and do nothing while woman and children are raped?
Riley beats the drums of war, and if you dare to challenge his twisted logic you're a MORON for sure.
How do you wipe out this dictator without troops on the ground? I guess you could bomb the place back to the stone age (remember that choice remark by Curtis Lemay during the Vietnam war?) How many women and children to do it your way Riley?
Haven't we seen this movie before? Next thing you know they'll be telling us that Hassad has Saddam's WMDs.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 27, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
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I find it more than mildly paradoxical that Obama expresses outrage over
this and deems it worthy of a token military strike yet millions continue
to die in deepest darkest Africa to which we have sent all of a few dozen advisors.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Aug 27, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
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We're f*#ked. I heard they're running out of money to fight the Rim fire but there's plenty of money to buy cruise missiles. Guess everybody in D.C. owns Defense stocks.
Hope they understand more about what's going on than they did when they threw us into Iraq.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 27, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
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"They" have been telling us this for years.
Yes I know. The foundation is laid...
And there was that thing about Saddam gassing the Kurds too. He had to go! Oh wait, didn't we sell him that stuff?
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Aug 27, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
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The law is well established that you cannot blame the manufacturer for
the misuse of their products.
Choke on a steak cannot sue the rancher.
Run over in a crosswalk by a silent running Volt cannot sue Chevrolet.
Saddam poisons you with nerve gas cannot sue US.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 27, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
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The manufacturer is dead.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Aug 27, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
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The "Red Line" business came out when Obama was in Israel. Israel is happy. I guess if Israel is happy, we should be happy.
The post upthread about Sarin was spot on. Fact is, in a confined space, tear gas is fatal.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Aug 27, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
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Let’s see where have I heard or seen this before:
US say they will hit strategic targets soon but will not tell when or the time or day; mostly at night time when people are asleep. They will only hit military, government and missile sites plus they say it will be a surprise.
Assad has now been warned for weeks about this; what could be going through his mine as well as his generals:
Citizens between the ages of 60-80, children and women are being rounded up and placed in front of, around, on top of the roofs, in the buildings, cooking, dancing, singing, watching TV and reading in or at these military, government and missile sites.
Assad couldn’t that cruel could he?
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