super moon summer solstice question

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Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2013 - 01:20am PT
Hey, educate me in high northern astronomy, please.

Can you guys way up north towards Alaska see a full moon around summer solstice? Or is too far south and so doesn't clear the southern horizon or even the trees to the south?

Here at Tahoe, 39th parallel, it's pretty low in the southern sky.

Just wondering, thanks!



p.s. Cause I think the moon orbits the earth more or less in the sun-earth plane. Correct?

I am trying to research it - how the moon phases appear above the arctic circle, for example in summer, but I'm not finding it so far yet.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 23, 2013 - 01:26am PT
Moon is BRIGHT tonight.

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 23, 2013 - 01:39am PT
not quite in the Earth-Sun plane

my calcs show that the Moon is below the horizon in Barrow Alaska (71.3003N, 156.7358W) today 6/22/2013

Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2013 - 01:41am PT
Amazing. Thanks, Ed.

Will have to research this more, revisit the basic principles!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 23, 2013 - 01:55am PT
An interesting question. Please continue and elucidate further.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jun 23, 2013 - 02:07am PT
I'm lookin at it now & it's pretty super. Can see the whole thing here is whistler.

Is it just me or have we had a lot of super moons lately??
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 23, 2013 - 02:07am PT


The "Ecliptic plane" is the plane that the Earth's orbit is in...
the Earth rotates and it's equatorial plane is tipped 23.5 off the ecliptic plane

the moon's orbit is also tipped 5 off the ecliptic plane

At a high enough latitude, the summer Sun will stay above the horizon for the day (as it is for Barrow today)...

a full Moon is "behind" the Earth opposite the Sun... if the Sun never sets, the Moon never rises....
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2013 - 02:26am PT
Thanks, Ed, that pic's a "super" good one.

Super "elucidating," huh Wayno? :)

I imagine something like a quarter moon would put on an interesting show up in the arctic circle at summer solstice (and other times too) for a visiting tourist, say from the 39th parallel.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Jun 23, 2013 - 03:50am PT
That worked for me. Big thanks , Ed.
aguacaliente

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:41am PT
Ed, this is kind of a nitpick, but because the moon's orbit is tilted 5 degrees out of the ecliptic plane, the full moon does not have to be exactly 180 degrees opposite the Sun from an Earth viewpoint. The plane of the lunar orbit precesses on an 18.6 year cycle. I believe this means that there are certain times where it would be theoretically possible to see a full moon on a day of 24-hour sun. If I have the geometry right, the full moon would be highest when close to the minor lunar standstill - look at the figure at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_standstill

Try calculating for Barrow on the full moon of July 21-22 (still midnight sun). I get that the full moon would be about 1 deg above the horizon. While it's questionable whether something 1 deg above the horizon is observable in practice, atmospheric refraction helps.
cyndiebransford

climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:52am PT
Here is a photo I took last night while out kayaking at 11:00PM on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska.
solstice moon
solstice moon
Credit: cyndiebransford
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jun 23, 2013 - 05:59am PT
It's looking good in mowab...
Credit: Jaybro
Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Menlo Park
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Credit: Dapper Dan

The Super Moon going down about 6am here near the mammoth hot tubs...
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:21am PT
It's shining brightly in Okinawa as well and looked huge coming up this evening around 8 pm.
MisterE

Social climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:48am PT
Amazing shot, Cyndie!

Thanks for the info, Ed.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 23, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
aguacaliente you're certainly correct that there isn't an exact 180 difference in the alignment....

My calculation shows that the Moon has an altitude of something like -2 at 1:30am on 6/22 at Barrow

It would be a fun exercise to calculate what days both the Sun and the full Moon were visible in the sky at the same time...

for 7/22/13 I do indeed get the full Moon and the Sun in the sky at altitudes of roughly +1 at around 2:30am local time

SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Jun 24, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Wow Cyndie!
Moon through masts....with touch up by Instagram! Doesn't make up for forgetting a tripod.

Credit: SCseagoat

Susan
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jun 24, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
Killer photos everyone!!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jun 24, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
No problem seeing the moon from S Face of Denali.
Not sure if it was 'super' although it was for me. :-)

Maybe Ed can compute the comparable latitude given 15K' on Denali.
(I probably could but I'm lazy plus he can do it in his head)
Actually, now that I think about it if Denali is 63N then being at 15K is like
being at about 64.5N. Am I right, Ed?

Crappy pic of a pic on my wall...
Credit: Reilly
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 24, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
when was the picture taken (day, month, year) ?

On 7/22/13 the full Moon will be at an altitude of nearly 10 above the horizon at 2am at Mt. McKinley.

At 15k elevation on the side of Denali, the moon will still appear 10 above your "level gaze" so well above most of the features near by (a 15k feet peak is at an altitude of 0 if it isn't too distant).


Nice image!

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