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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 9, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
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OK, mostly I'm thinking about "MY lower back, and ME."
I've had lower back "issues" since I was in my early 20s. I'm now 55, and not diggin' the prospects of how it's gonna feel 10 years down the line. I'm not debilitated, or out of commission, or anything, and could embark on a rigorous program if it was worth exploring.
I was a distance runner (not competitively) for years, and I imagine that took some toll on it. I've been climbing regularly since '75, and was told by a physical therapist that if my core weren't being regularly worked out from climbing, my back would probably be in a lot worse shape.
I know that everyone's back is different, and different people respond differently to different therapeutic approaches. I also know that the medical community seems to be pretty hit and miss on how to be helpful about back stuff.
For those of you who have had chronic lower back pain, what has worked best for you? I'd love to hear about "Your Lower Back, and You!"
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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You HAVE to get your hamstrings and calves stretched and strong.
This saved my life. I was in chronic pain. Docs handed me vitamin V and said u did it to yourself, tough luck.
Painful sessions early on of weighted squats and constant daily arching of the lower back now has me pain/pill free. Not even IB.
If I think ur hams are loose..... They're not. Make them looser and stronger.
U can buy a beer once your doing hurdles again.
Cheers
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Had problems most my life, it most probably started when I broke my left leg skiing at 15 during a growth spurt and consequently have a shorter leg (I do wear a lift, but it doesn't take up all the missing height). I exacerbated it through crazy bump skiing in my 20's, and then running 5 k's and jumping off of tall boulder problems before pads.
I'm not as good at stretching as I should be (in fact I'm downright lazy about it). When it's bad, the lumbar muscles on either side of my lower spine stand out like two railroad tracks. The best thing I've found is knowing my body and taking the appropriate precautions, such as:
When I feel I've "tweaked" it, lay low for a couple of days, don't do sh*t!
Never, never, never, carry anything over about 10 lbs in front of you (this is a hard one if you've got kids, or you don't want to bruise your ego by letting your petite, short backed wife out do you when it comes to moving stuff).
Make sure that all of your seating arrangements, work chair, car seat, home seating, have firm lumbar support.
In short, don't be afraid to baby it when you first feel it coming on. I've tried all of the build the stomach exercises and push your back to the floor exercises that were given to me by my physical therapist. I think those things probably work for someone that doesn't have the problem and doesn't want to get it. They never seemed to really "fix" my back.
Good luck! A good supportive chair and a couple of Old Rasputin's work about the best for me.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Swimming. Anytime anything in my body starts rebelling, I hit the pool for a couple weeks. Always makes me feel like a million bucks...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jeeze Tom, I tried to end your misery. I really did try. But oh, no, you had to duck out of the way and let the rock miss your head. If you'd just taken that shot like a real man, you'd be dead now and we wouldn't have to listen to you whine about your back.
But since you are still alive and hurting, here's a couple of quick thoughts...
First, there are a lot of different things that can cause lower back pain, and here on the internet you're going to hear about every one of them, and how if you just do what I did (Yoga? Cut out gluten? Dancersize?) it will surely fix you up.
Second, I'm not a back doctor, nor do I play one on TV. But I do know one of the best back doctors in the Seattle area (she's a climber) and can put you in touch if you like.
Cheers
David
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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I did notice some back popping (not really pop, as much as settling) when laying down flat on soft mattresses. it's not really pain in this case. sublax?
the more I climb, the less it happens. when I get lazy and start losing the very little core I have, it returns some. I don't image it is anything near what most folks have. Just one experience.
usually my neck is what get's jacked up. muscles and cold temps and all that.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Flexibility in your glutes, hammys and hip flexors is key. Also a good strong core. If I can maintain good strength and flexibility from my knee caps to my nips, all is good! Also,the MRI is a necessity to see what is really going on back there.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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It was those three large boxes of climbing mags that you put in my trunk. I screwed up my back getting them out and back in then back out again. And now I gave them to someone with a real serious back situation: Big Mike. What is wrong with us?
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Boxes of magazines and books, those are the worst! The next day you'll be bending over the sink to brush your teeth, and you won't be able to stand back up.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
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coz: once you got your MRI, what did you do beyond the diagnosis? And thanks for the suggestion!
Ghost: better luck next time, and work on your aim!
Wayno: you might be on to something there...
Dean: thanks. I am on a regular schedule of 4 days of cardio, and 3 days on the home woodie now.
Thanks, all, for your great input! I'll be continuing to watch this thread with interest.
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WBraun
climber
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When my back hurts I go to the Cookie and do laps.
Then back hurts more.
Then day later back hurt goes away.
This is just sarcastic humor.
Almost 99% of my post are like this so do not disrepair ..... :-)
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John M
climber
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Don't listen to Ghost. He don't know jack about internet doctoring. I'm sure you can find just the right answer if you will just get that fecal transplant. Oh wait.. thats moosedrool with that problem. you are mooser.. never mind
[Click to View YouTube Video]
What works for me has been learning to let go of stress, plus Finding a really good physical therapist and learning the right exercises and stretches for m. Finding a good physical therapist is really tricky because its hard to know if they are good or not. I didn't find out the difference until I found one. He helped me more in 6 weeks then years or therapy had before. He figured out which muscles and ligaments and tendons were too tight, and just where they were contributing to the pain, and then he tied me up into all sorts of weird psycho movie positions, and it helped a ton.
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wbw
Trad climber
'cross the great divide
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I'm 52, have been climbing consistently since I was about 22, and have been a distance runner (not competitive) since 15. The main thing that I do that makes my back sore is running. I stretch lower back, hip flexors and hamstrings religiously after every run. I stopped running on hard surfaces several years ago, and this makes a big difference. Fortunately, we have excellent trails to run on around Boulder: just as good as the climbing.
I have tweaked my back badly three or so times in the last 4 years, while attempting to strengthen my abs through specific exercises. I have decided that I can't do any intense abs specific exercise anymore without putting my lower back at risk. At my age, I'm not willing to take that risk anymore.
When my back gets sore, but before it goes into spasms, I rest, do very gentle stretches (talking about lying on my side with my knees pulled a little toward my chest) and apply a heat pad.
Climbing generally helps with potential back issues. I don't seem to stretch after climbing the way that I do after running, and my back is mostly okay with that.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I've got about 12 degrees lumbar scoliosis, since childhood, and have had lower back pain since about 17yo. It comes and goes.
Luckily, I am skinny and have a very strong core. Unluckily, I work a job that keeps me at a desk 90% of the time. Keeping my hip flexors, hammys, quads, and lumbar stretched is vital.
Like DMT, I'm also a side sleeper. Switching to a memory foam mattress about 5 years ago made a big difference for me. Seems to keep me in decent alignment without twisting. The rare time I migrate from side sleeping, I end up on my stomach with head turned to one side...this tends to cause neck pain which sometimes migrates all the way down.
Manage your stress levels too. Holding a lot of tension in your body (which you often don't notice) due to the stress can exacerbate the issue.
My dad has it much worse. Aside from a terrible diet and smoking a pack of marlboro reds a day, he never stretches, and ended up with multiple ruptured discs and DDD after what should have been a minor muscle tear type injury on the job (steel worker), which eventually ended with fusion of 3 or 4 vertebrae and a lot of hardware in his back..rods and screws and stuff....which meant he was on Oxy, lortabs, somas, percs and similar for about 3 years. Being the irresponsible dipshit he is, he'd hoard them for a while then get ripped on a big dose sharing them with his GF.
I'd focus on addressing these: stretch, stengthen, diet, sleep, stress mgmt. And if it is chronic, Coz is right, see a doc and get the MRI.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
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Tom, I am absolutely convinced that the key to a good lower back, is VERY fit abs.
I agree 100%
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Tom, I am absolutely convinced that the key to a good lower back, is VERY fit abs.
No disagreement there, but sometimes it's not that simple. As has been said, many folks with back problems exacerbate their problems by doing ab work. Sit ups are often the worst culprit.
Pilates is a great way to develop the core, and balance all those quads, hammys and hip flexors which have been mentioned. But if someone with serious back issues comes to me I'll ask them to see a Doctor (who will want an MRI) and a physical therapist first. Then I can have a chat with the PT and we'll be able to proceed safely. Baby steps at first.
FWIW a lot of back injuries happen after sitting for a while (a lot of spinal stabilizers which are active standing take a nap) and then getting up and and lifting something with rotation.
I am currently building a standing workstation here at home. If I have to spend several hours a day at the computer (yes, I do,) then I'll darn well do it standing.
Is-Your-Chair-Killing-You
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Your post is timely for me- it took me 13 minutes to get out of bed this morning.
I won't bore you with my specifics here, but if interested feel free to PM. All us back suffers appear slightly different and have different things that work, don't work etc. That said, the last two years have been a different phase for me, and I'll throw a few ideas on to the pile.
Pilates, helped at first, but I was not one on one and got very adept at cheating- using other muscles to do the work than the ones I should have been using.
PT had worked great in the past, but could only bring me so far recently.
Swimming helped vastly.But again reached a plateau.
Trigger Points have been amazing in other parts of my body, but limited success with my back, but it has all been self treatment. I have not had someone else work on me using this method.
Chiro- Basically a big no- I need to be able to work on myself and like to do the work. Same w/ acupuncture
Egoscue Method- am doing this now in a clinic and the jury is out.
Network Spinal Analysis- looks at the problem from a whole different angle and very trippy. I can talk more about if you're interested. Jury is out.
For driving : http://www.yogaback.com/The_YogaBack_for_Driving/new_YogaBackDriving_BU.html
I just heard of a MD here in LA that has great non-surgical success. I can let you know.
Every practitioner of each modality are not equal. So you have to not only find the right path (for you) but the right healer practising that path. We have similarities but are all different.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
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When my back hurts I go to the Cookie and do laps.
Then back hurts more.
Then day later back hurt goes away.
This is just sarcastic humor.
Almost 99% of my post are like this so do not disrepair ..... :-)
Thanks, Werner! This confirms that this is a legit thread.
Dingus: No weight issues with me, but lots of time flinging 95lb sacks of Red-e-crete in my safe installation days. Countless pallets with no way to lift with legs, etc., and lots of time with digging bar, jack hammer, and sub-floor work putting in floor safes. Forgot about all that time in my original post.
Thanks again for y'all's input! I'm fascinated by what has worked and not worked for you.
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fluffy
Mountain climber
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good thread. I am missing half the disc between L5/S1 from years of gravity sports (falls,wrecks) and hardcore manual labor...mainly stonework and chainsaw work.. narcotics barely touch the pain, ganja helps though.
ditto on running I just can't do it anymore, the back pain outweighs the pleasure :-(
got a inversion table for $200 at costco and it really helps
yoga helps a lot too
tried trigger point dry needling for awhile but that didn't do much
actually had the nerves in my L5 S1 facets cauterized but that didn't really work either
looking into throwing some serious money down on a latex bed since sleeping hurts it worse than anything active I do.
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