OT two non-climbing issues that bug me

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Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 11, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Firstly, why didn't John Wayne (an American icon, and contrary to some a very accomplished and technical actor, and yes I am a fan, but not of his politics) and a couple of other stars not enlist in WW2, while the likes of Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda, Eddie Albert, David Niven, Denholm Elliot, Clark Gable and a number other actors/stars/celebrities/etc did, putting their careers on hold?

http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/military/actors_in_wwii.html

http://www.listal.com/list/war-heroes-big-screen-war

Likewise in the Korean War - Telly Savalas, James Garner, Michael Caine etc.

And of course those who served in Vietnam and indeed, people like Pat Tillman in recent conflicts.

And Ted Williams, both WW2 and Korea.

Of course, there are other nationalities beside US and British I have not mentioned.


And secondly, maybe I don't get it, but how in the world did that crap South Park make it past one season?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
Point taken Locker, but he never saw active duty, to the best of my knowledge, or came under fire.

Of course there were those entertainers who performed duties towards the Allied cause, but you would think macho Wayne would have wanted to see frontline duty.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
Locker that is an interesting article that may explain certain things about John Wayne's psyche.


And yes, while there may be some Supertopians who are fans of the show, I think that South Part sucks big time and is probably the worst program/series to hit television. And yes, I have (tried) to watch the show a number of times to understand its appeal, but... no go. The animation is school kid, the jokes/barbs childish, the scriptwriting third rate, at best... wait a minute, no wonder so many Americans like it. What ten plus seasons? Weird.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
Will the 'talk/chat/whatever' shows like jeremy Kyle (Britain) and Steve Wilkos (US) are not far behind South Park.

At least Dr Phil has degrees in psychology. Kyle, ex-insurance salesman, Wilkos, ex-cop and Marine, perhaps a tad bit better qualified than Kyle.

Jennie often asks me, with my background in journalism, television, acting, why don't I do a talk show.

Heck look how it has made Oprah and Ellen, and others, rich.

I don't know, maybe something like Pat Talk and Chat Talk or Paddy is your psychotic Daddy, or Sawyer Says or Chatty Paddy...


or my favorite Chat with Pat
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Nov 11, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
Remember Hollywood is just an imitation of real life!
John Wayne's real name was Marion Morrison

And cartoons are just an imitation of that imitation
Which is usually a negative connotation.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
My favorite of those guys is Somerset Maughm, who was a full-on Walther-packing Spy during WWI, and wrote about it, using the experiences in essays and short stories.

South Park, in my estimation, has had moments of brilliance worthy of Lenny Bruce. But it's been largely lame the last few seasons.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
Why is Beavis & Butthead rated "for mature audiences only" ?
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
How did South Park make it 10 seasons?


Patrick, we now live in a era where the History Channel is made up of shows like Ice Road Truckers and Swamp People. And TLC, which used to stand for the Learning Channel (which now stands for The Lowest Common IMO) is made up of even worse shows like Honey Boo Boo, Toddlers & Tiaras and Bada Bing Brides. Shwos like Jersey Shore, the Kardashians and Desperate Housewives can last several, several seasons. and a frighteningly large percentage of people form their political opinions from bias comical media commentary shows like John Stewart.

In light of it all, South Park ain't half bad.
Mimi

climber
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
Supposedly, from one of his biographies, the government actually asked Hollywood and John Wayne to make propaganda war films instead of him serving. He wanted to serve. Not sure why the other big stars of that time didn't have this option too. Maybe one was enough and Wayne wasn't a pilot, which were in big demand. The same happened with my grandfather. He was told to stay home and keep the hardware and feedstore going to assist the farmers in the area instead.

South Park has put out some awesome social commentary for those with the cynical sense of humor to appreciate it.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 11, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
Good question that is pretty unlikely to get answered...


Bingo!


South Park is funnier than North Park and I rarely can watch either one all the way through an episode. Now Fluffy, he's funny.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Nov 11, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
Actually, the majority of the men who served in any of our wars, including WW2, Korea and Vietnam, never "saw" actual combat.

That majority of the Armed Forces served in all the backup and support roles:

anything from food procurement and preparation for the troops to naval, marine, air force and army field mechanics to keep all those war vehicles operative

the list is virtually endless for those that did serve but did not engage in actual combat

I don't see how it "fair" to criticize anyone, even a movie star, for not seeing combat while serving in the capacity their superior officers ordered them to serve within
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 11, 2012 - 05:02pm PT
It is hard to deduce why someone 'avoids' serving his country in a time of
need without coming to selfishness and cowardice, wouldn't you say? Even
Charles 'I love Adolph' Lindbergh eventually served admirably.

South Park is for dolts.

Patrick, I would love to see your talk show. Would it be a patch on Graham Norton's? :-)
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 12, 2012 - 12:06am PT
Stone and Parker, you know there's a death penalty in Colorado, you scum.
Taking the law into his own hands was a rarity, but in this case the D...
Taking the law into his own hands was a rarity, but in this case the Duke might make an exception. Hey, they're only Toons.
Credit: LIFE
Arch hypocrisy. I too wonder why he side-stepped the real action, which I never truly really relaized, but now you raise the question...

What films of worth did the Duke star in during the war?
WBraun

climber
Nov 12, 2012 - 12:53am PT
John Wayne didn't enlist or get into the military because it wasn't his destiny.

Everyone is destined to go a certain way in their life.

We don't have full control .......
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 12, 2012 - 01:42am PT
In fact, WereNe'er, Truer Ne'er Were Muttered and your destiny just made you say that.

It doesn't bug me that Marion never served. Really, stop and think: for everyone who served, so many didn't, yet they may have acquitted themselves well, as was earlier explained. It's not truly ours to judge, and therefore, why speculate either? POINTLESS...

The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Nov 12, 2012 - 03:08am PT
The animation is school kid, the jokes/barbs childish, the scriptwriting third rate, at best...

The entire show, from animation to scriptwriting, is satirical and mocking. That's it's brilliance.

Monty Python's animation was even poorer, and the jokes/barbs equally banal & immature. Yet they were genius.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 12, 2012 - 03:21am PT
Wikipedia:

America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment). He repeatedly wrote to John Ford, asking to be placed in Ford's military unit, but consistently postponed it until "after he finished one more film",[27] Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him; Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract[28] and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.[29]

As for being a racist?

His Quote:

Wikipedia:

“I believe in white supremacy, until blacks are educated to the point of responsibility. I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them, [the Indians] if that's what you're asking. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves. [35] [36]

Wayne as well as Reagan were ardent anti-communist and vocal supporters of the House Un-American Activities Committee.

But the biggie is that: He was also a member of the conservative, anti-communist John Birch Society.[57] if you continue looking at his politics.

Look it up: there is one person that said he did not belong or never was a member but the person that said it is the current president of the John Birch Society: John McManus. Who are going to believe someone trying to hide that information or all the real info about him from the press? He did leave eventually after a disagreement in one of their issues.

Fred Chase Koch was one of the founding members and current Koch bothers are well contacted as well even though being more libertarian.

Wikipedia:

Members of the Koch family have given to libertarian policy and advocacy groups in the United States[5], including think tanks like the Heritage Foundation and the Cato Institute, and more recently Americans for Prosperity.[7] Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks are Koch-linked organizations that have been linked to the Tea Party movement.[8][9][10][11]

Wayne still had respect from all sorts of opposition:

Wikipedia:

“Abbie Hoffman, the radical of the 1960s, paid tribute to Wayne's singularity, saying, "I like Wayne's wholeness, his style. As for his politics, well — I suppose even cavemen felt a little admiration for the dinosaurs that were trying to gobble them up."[40]
………………………………….

His “The Green Berets” was a propaganda movie purposely made for recruiting. Problem at the end of the movie where he gives the little Vietnamese kid a fellow SF member beret who died says to the kid “This is what this is all about” regarding what is next and saving the kid from harm.

The both are at a beach looking at the sun setting and fading away.

What the Fu%k: the sun does not set in the west in Vietnam with the ocean; it faces east when the sun rises. That’s Hollywood for you.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2012 - 06:58am PT
I love some of the comments on this thread.

But to equate South Park with Monty Python, whoa, that's a big step. But to each their own. Some people like free climbing, others like aid.

Remember, always look on the bright side of life...



And BTW, I was not criticizing John Wayne or anybody, I was just wondering and asking a question. Some posts on this thread have more or less answered my question(s).




But South Park, gagggggggg
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 12, 2012 - 07:58am PT
South Park is brilliant. If you don't watch the whole episode, you usually miss the true punch line.

John Wayne is dead. Has been for quite some time.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 12, 2012 - 08:30am PT
but how in the world did that crap South Park make it past one season?


South Park is for sophisticated audiences with higher-than-average IQs. Perhaps that is why you don't get it.

EDIT: Just kidding you
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