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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Perhaps it would be more constructive if anyone with problems with these crampons contacted Black Diamond directly, whether with regard to warranty/replacement, or more general issues. It's a company known for taking quality and related matters very seriously.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Mighty Hiker,
Dane's (Coldthistle) point has been that BD has actually not been responsive enough to this issue. We're entering the second year with relatively frequent failures associated with the same construction and material issues. It's become public/frequent enough that it seems to warrant a public reponse from BD. This despite the fact that there are admittedly large numbers of Sabertooths out there that have not failed.
For some, a failed crampon midway up a route/pitch could be as potentially catastrophic as a protection/carabiner/cam failure - pieces of gear we all would be concerned about if they showed this frequent a (largely) unexplained failure.
I agree that BD is generally very responsive on quality issues and I love BD gear as a general rule. But at this point I have seen enough to convince me not to purchase or recommend Sabertooths due to this issue. At least not to those planning on using them on anything steep...
However I love my stainless Cyborgs, cams, packs, ice tools, axes, screws...etc. and I have always had very positive personal experiences with BD customer service. So I see this as an anomoly but one I'd like to see a response from BD on.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Well, it's possible that they're off product testing this weekend, or even have the weekend off, and can't reply until next week - assuming, that is, that they see this thread. And I've heard that there are climbers who have never looked at SuperTopo, although BD might let employees do so at work if they wanted or needed to.
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RDB
Social climber
wa
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Be nice to blame it on someone else...hell REI keeps doing it with the broken bikes so why not.
But the BD stainless horizontal crampons are made in SLC last time I visited the factory a little over a year ago now.
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apogee
climber
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BD is soooooo over.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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I didn't notice any structural damage to my Sabretooths when I got them out of the box a couple years ago. I did notice, however, that one of the toe bales was put in backwards. [I chalked it up to stoner BD employees and fixed it]
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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I've avoided bd gear for a while now , except for the cams (although all my new pieces are metolius). Everything else seems to come up short, tents, skis, headlamps, crampons. I think BD, hallowed as they are, is not in control of production, using as much China based manufacturing and vendoring as they do. Have you tried the beer yet? eh..
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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i ♥ <c>
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apogee
climber
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i miss <c>
Edit: It would be interesting to see what the state of Chouinard Equipment might have been if he hadn't cut it away so many years ago.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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BD is soooooo over.
weren't they bought up by a dark corporate entity last year?
the link alleges that they made it clear they don't give a hoot. what's the link to that?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I never had these BD crampons since they appear like something not very durable. For sure not aggressive enough for steep ice IMO. Although of course one can climb/lead ice in these, I wouldn't.
On the other hand, my friend had a CAMP (horizontal) crampon snap in half on steep snow once. It was fairly crazy to see it. Those CAMP crampons look like crap too. Just like those BD ones..
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Mar 15, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
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Love BD gear but do not like their crampons. Grivel the other companies crampons I have used seemed way more bomber. My buddy has the new ss model and already broke the spacer bar. I also think the steel feels way more springy when standing flat footed with sidepoints engaged at an angle which is a feeling that bugs me.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 15, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
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I have a warranty issue with one of your products. What should I do?
It’s always best to work with the dealer you purchased the item from. If this is not possible you can return any Black Diamond product within terms of our warranty (see below) directly to this address:
Black Diamond Warranty and Repair
2084 East 3900 South
Salt Lake City, Utah 84124
801-365-5555
warranty@bdel.com
Include your name, address, phone number, and a brief description of the problem. Items sent in for repair MUST be cleaned first or it will be returned. Note: This is NOT the address for returning items ordered from our mail order department or website. See "How do I return something I ordered?" HERE.
Limited Warranty:
We warrant for one year from purchase date and only to the original retail buyer (Buyer) that our products (Products) are free from defects in material and workmanship. For headlamps our warranty is for three years. If Buyer discovers a covered defect, Buyer should return the Product to the place of purchase. In the event that this is not possible, return the Product to us at the address provided. The Product will be repaired or replaced at our discretion. That is the extent of our liability under this Warranty and, upon expiration of the applicable warranty period, all such liability shall terminate. We reserve the right to require proof of purchase for all warranty claims.
Warranty Exclusions:
We do not warranty Products against normal wear and tear (such as ski edge cuts and abrasions, outsole wear, etc.), unauthorized modifications or alterations, improper use, improper maintenance, accident, misuse, negligence, damage, or if the Product is used for a purpose for which it was not designed. This Warranty gives you specific rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Except for expressly stated in this Warranty, we shall not be liable for direct, indirect, incidental, or other types of damages arising out of, or resulting from the use of Product. This Warranty is in lieu of all other warranties, express or implied, including, but not limited to, implied warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose (some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages or allow limitations on the duration of an implied warranty, so the above exclusions may not apply to you).
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/customer-service/warranty-repair#bd
Black Diamond’s best all-around crampon, the Sabretooth features a lightweight stainless steel design. (highlighting added)
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/climb/crampons/sabretooth-crampon
Take your concerns/questions directly to the warranty & repair department, and let us know their response. Preferably something current. I have no idea whether the Sabretooths are the best ever (relative to the intended use), useless junk, something that you've abused or have unrealistic expectations about, have quality control issues, or anything else. But if you haven't first tried to work it out with the dealer and manufacturer, and aren't willing to tell us what happened, don't come crying here.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Mar 15, 2012 - 05:37pm PT
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I was wondering how long it would take coz to chime in trashing BD. :-) Never ever lets an opportunity pass him by.........
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Mar 15, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
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RDB... Did you even read your link before you posted you comment? I pulled a couple of paragraphs for you to reread. Note the bold section.
FROM BLACK DIAMOND WEB SITE
"But just as you can buy beefy, all-terrain radials that last longer than high-performance race tires, you can buy rugged climbing gear that'll last longer, but at a cost of weight and performance. You can also purchase more specialized, lighter gear, but it generally won't be quite as burly. It's up to each individual climber to make the choice and understand the possible ramifications of these decisions.
One last thing: my job at BD is to manage a team of engineers that test and break gear all day, every day. We test all gear (not just BD, but all our competitor's gear, too) and do so scientifically and objectively. Yes, we monitor the blogs and chat rooms for trends, information and what is being discussed, and are constantly surprised by both the nature of the commentary (sometimes factual and sometimes not) and the tendency of most blog/forum readers to accept everything as true. As a caveat, don't believe everything you read online—if you do, I have a friend in Nigeria who will wire you $100,000 and all you have to do is send him your bank account information."
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 15, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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i miss
Edit: It would be interesting to see what the state of Chouinard Equipment might have been if he hadn't cut it away so many years ago.
Chouinard cut it away because of a lilbility issue that forced GPIW into a Chapter 11. The original problem was a tort judgment when a harness sold by GPIW failed (it's not clear why) for a client The Bird was guiding. It obviously had some dire consequences on Jim, too.
So if you want to know why GPIW (i.e. Chouinard Equipment) sold to Black Diamond, it came about because of potential tort liability and Chouinard's new-found wealth from Patagonia. With the success of Patagonia, Chouinard could not afford the liability exposure, and could not effectively insulate himself from liability for failed climbing gear.
Incidentally, I still have, and still use, some #1 and #2 original Camalots. It's always entertaining to see my partners' eyes pop when they see me take them out of the trunk and put them on the rack! Then I bring out my original, rigid-stem, Friends . . .
John
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Mar 15, 2012 - 06:00pm PT
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"Do you think if a company has a fatal flaw in their product, it should not be recalled?"
If a product has a "fatal flaw" when used under reasonable and designed conditions then yes, it should be recalled. I'm not convinced that this is the case.
"Do you support people dying for a cost benefits ratio?"
The fact is we all support it. You included. I only want to pay so much in taxes.......
Erik
"the faceless BD troll"
Edit
Coz,
I think you would also benefit from reading and understanding the bolded section from the Black Diamond website above.
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skitch
Trad climber
pdx
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Mar 15, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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I understand the road BD has decided to go down, they want to sell more gear than anyone else, to do so they have to compete with the companies that sell gear for low prices. BD has chosen their competition; MadRock, camp, mammut, etc.
That is why I choose to buy DMM, Petzl and Metolius, edelrid, organic.
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