Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 3, 2012 - 08:22pm PT
Need some help with this decision...... Taylor 12 string.....go with mahogany/sitka spruce(556) or rosewood/engleman spruce(856). Not gonna go with electronics. Give me some views on those that have a mahogany and give me some views on those that have rosewood. I have a HD-35 Martin and love the sound, but anyone out there play 12's? eKat?????? Need some help brothers and sisters! Post up and help me out! http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/556ce http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/856ce
Peace
Mahogany is going to be "drier" sounding. . . especially built with a Sitka top. . . gonna be brighter, quicker to decay, kinda brittle and punchy.
Rosewood (presumably, East Indian, since Brazilian on a 12 string would kind of be a waste) with Engelmann is going to be warmer and mellower, with more sustain. . . I don't want to go so far as to say "deeper" but. . . as a comparison, let's call the Mahog/Sitka = Skittles and the EIR/Eng = chocolate.
I have a Taylor 12-string that sounds wonderful. I never paid attention to what kind of wood it has though... I left it in my band's practice spot last week because we were recording with it. Next week I can check and post back and maybe even include a sound sample.
I will add. . . you might want to consider how you're going to play it. . . if you're going to flat pick it = strumming, you might WANT the drier, quicker to decay sound, so it won't get all muddied. . . BUT. . . if you're gonna go at it in a fingerstyle mode, you might want the prettier, warmer sustain you'll get out of the EIR.
Yeah eKat, I completely respect yer take on guitars and was surely hoping you'd post up. I'm leaning in the rosewood direction because of it's rich tone as a wood(and it looks so cool)! I always heard the D12-20 was THE 12 string because of the sound of mahogany, but there's something about rosewood....the looks, sound and smell get to me. Guitars to me are a work and piece of art, so phuuuckin hard to decide, wish I was rich and then I could buy em all.
Peace
Dwain brother..Leo is the man and I can't even come within the same atmosphere...Taylor sells a Leo Kottke mahogany guitar, but Blanchard knows a thing or a million about guitars and I'd be a FOOL not to listen. Ever smell the inside of a Indian Rosewood guitar? Hey Kathy, I might be able to get my hands on a Braz 00-21 1959 Martin. I'd schit my pants on that one.
My experience is that mahogany sides and back make a brighter, crispier sound, versus a bassier more solid sound with rosewood or the other harder woods like maple and koa.
But it depends on the species of the top, how it's braced, how thick it is, and how all the different pieces of wood which make up the body resonate together.
Even with today's mass producing techniques, every guitar, even within the same models from the same builders, made of the same species of woods, has a unique sound if you know how to play and have an ear.
There is no substitute for playing particular guitars before buying one. And the strings have to be new, or nearly new, to make a good decision.
If you're making a big investment, play as many guitars as you can before you close in one, Ron.
And don't forget the opportunities on the used market. A well built guitar only sounds better with age - cosmetics are just that.
Ron. . . you used some KEYWORDS there. . . "rich tone" of the Rosewood. . . that's what you're gonna get over the Mahog/Sitka. . . I wish we were together, because I would use some "telling" body language for the following words. . . I would gracefully spread my arms while I said. . . "Rosewood is going to sound BIGGER."
If that means anything.
Kinda like singing a nice, clear note with a lot of air in your lungs. . . just bigger and broader.
Not much of a 12 string guy.
But while we're on the question of advice, should I or shouldn't I?
Credit: Chief
Description
The new Martin D-45 Authentic is a powerhouse guitar built to exacting specifications based on a 1942 D-45 that Martin now showcases in their Museum Collection. Only 91 of these were made orginally prior to WWII and they are the "Holy Grails" of the vintage guitar world. There's every good reason to project that these new Authentics will be equally coveted by tomorrow's collector.
The guitar has some interesting features that separate it from D-45's made in the last few decades. For one, Martin is using a slightly thinner Adirondack spruce top (.105" versus .120") with rear-shifted scalloped x-bracing while also thinning the rosewood backs just a bit. That and the 100% hot hide glue construction give these guitars an enormous tonal strength while keeping the overall resonance light and airy.
Other Authentic features are the ebony, non-adjustable truss rod, solid pearl inlays (no Abalam on these puppies), and premium, old-growth Brazilian back and sides. The beveled tortoise pickguard is applied under the thin nitrocellulose polished lacquer finish. Bridge pins, end pin, nut and saddle are all made from premium fossilized ivory.
All of these features and attention to minute details coalesce into one of the finest Martin reissues ever made. This guitar replicates the look, feel, sound, power and the essence of a pre-War Martin D-45.
Crap! Kevin I know you got some nice wood as well and yeah I hear ya on playing as many as I can. Whada ya think? I ruled out the maple 'cause it was too bright, too snappy, too clean.....eKat I WISH we were together, I'd love to see the body language!! So whada ya say you and Kevin come over for a visit, bring yer babies and convince me which way to go!
Peace
Chief......yeah ya should, without hesitation or question. One of my dream women.
Hey Ron,
Just FYI there's one of these for sale in Craigslist/Ft. Collins/Musical Instruments. It's been for sale there for a while for $550.
Here's mine, 1980.
Takamine 1980 Lawsuit
Credit: Robb
PS: I like it's sound better than nearly all that I've played in the last 35 years...and I've played a lot of 12's.
Just my two cents.
Robb, had the exact guitar years ago, got mine in the 70's....that's why I want another 12. Let a friend use it...he passed away and his sister saw it when she was "cleaning" up for him, thought it was his and gave it to her son. I didn't have the heart to tell her it was mine, so it stayed with my best friends nephew..cie la vie! I'm ready for another.
Peace
order one of each and then send back the one you like less. general tendencies of wood are just that, general. different chunks are going to differ. and drastically more in different guitars. the one that's just put together right, with the right chunk of whatever, is gonna feel/sound better than the next.
some places have such amazingly consistent production and wood sourcing that you have reliable predictabilty (at least until sourcing changes for whatever reason), but from my experience, taylor isn't one of them.
buying guitars sight unseen is nerve wracking. no doubt about it. ya live in socal. aren't there enuf hippified 12-string cutaways of different types to go out and sample? or have the hairfarmers and o-brother-where-art-thous so colonized the boutiques that it's all oms, jumbos, and lp/sg/charvels?
The new Martin's I've played have been all over the map as far as sound goes, with more of them being downright dead sounding. Not that I've played a lot of them, but out of 5 or 6, I really only liked one.
New ones I've played feel heavy, esp as compared with my old D18, like there's too much finish on the box, or the top, sides, back, and or bracing's too thick.
One I played was outstanding though, and I don't recall which model.
Whoa, that's some serious dough for that Martin, Chief!
I definitely haven't picked up one of those. I'd be surprised if any dealer would even let you play one...
As for maple, Ron, I've got a birdseye maple drednought with a redwood top setting on my lap, and I haven't played too many guitars that sound better.
Hey Kathy--
I pulled some NICE black acacia out of my woodpile today which has been drying for 25 years - grain is straight as an arrow, and pieces wide enough for backs.
Does Blinny ever build with that? It's almost koa.
Kerwin, I gotta say the Taylor's I've played are consistently GUD, buttery smooth on the action and I gotta small hands and(and rubber shoulders)(inside joke), and when I gotta play up the neck on bar cords, they can't be beat...from what I've played. Kevin, I gotta agree, that's why I've ruled out Martin's sadly, as I'm a big fan and as said up thread, I might be able to land a '59 00-21 with Brazilian.
Keep the comments coming, I want to hear it all, because I've played both the guitars I'm interested in and love em both for what they are. But I can only "afford" one.
Peace
Kevin, yer killing me! My first thought was maple and I loved the sound. When I pick up my Rosewood guitar, it sounds so nice. Got to play Dana Eubanks' D-28 Madagascar AND CSN D-28 last week, he's a lucky sucka to have those SWEET guitars. Now I gotta go and second guess myself!!!!!! Schitz
I pulled some NICE black acacia out of my woodpile today which has been drying for 25 years - grain is straight as an arrow, and pieces wide enough for backs.
Does Blinny ever build with that? It's almost koa.
WOW. . . He hasn't built with it, yet. . . and that might just be an availability issue. Maybe you should go to blanchardguitars.com and shoot him an E. . . might be a cool thing to let him know about. . . he's extremely approachable and I know he'd love to hear from you. He lives, breathes, eats, sleeps and dreams about two things; rock climbing and building guitars.
You're right about a lot of production Martins being less than spectacular.
All new guitars are going to sound a little tight and definitely become more articulate with age and playing, (kind of like us, right?)
The Authentic Series are built to 30s specs and if you haven't played a D18 Authentic, you're in for a treat.
Martin's built less than twenty of these D45 rigs and word around the campfire is they won't build more than fifty.
New Martins usually sell for 60%-70% MSRP so these will go for a mere $40k.
BARGAIN!
To chime in on the original question, I'd go for Italian Alpine and Madagascar, Adirondack and Mahogany or Sitka and Mahogany in that order.
Let us know!