Safetying your Tag Bag with the Slippery Knot

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Messages 1 - 20 of total 32 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 9, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
I've looked at it and accept that it is safe enough for ME. You should only use this if you feel you understand it enough that you feel it is safe enough for YOU. I make no guarantees.

[Click to View YouTube Video]
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Dec 9, 2011 - 07:58pm PT
Embedded doesn't seem to work, Mark.

In the meantime, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwWnye2RxbI
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2011 - 08:13pm PT
It's working in my browser, Richard.

On a Mac using Safari.
mwatsonphoto

Trad climber
los angeles, ca
Dec 9, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
works for me too.

Thanks for the video - Great stuff!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 9, 2011 - 08:25pm PT
"... the thing that makes it safe ...." in theory

"How could the tag rack fall off its rack?"

Easy! You go falling past it!



If you are on a harder section, you may have to construct a mini powerpoint along the pitch to have something that you feel confident in.

One thing I would strongly suggest is that you first duct-tape closed the carabiner that you use for the slippery overhand knot. Because sooner or later, you will somehow accidentally pass the rope section with which you are tying the slippery overhand knot THROUGH this carabiner, instead of around it. And of course when you go to pull up the tag rack, the slippery overhand knot will release, but the rack won't come up because it's stuck through the carabiner! [This is not Big Wall Theory, this is Big Wall Fact]

So use some duct tape in the first place to prevent this from happening, at least until such time as you are certain you know what you are doing. And then you can stop with the duct tape. Until Big Wall Fact occurs, and you hear my words echoing....

Geez Mark, slippery overhand knot, DMM Revolver, where did you ever come up with such brilliant ideas?? {wink}



Nice work, Mark. You're becoming a real live Wall Doctor.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2011 - 08:37pm PT
the only thing I created here is the vid, all the other ideas were from Pete!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 9, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
What's that hunk of plywood with those funny grey things on it for?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 9, 2011 - 08:39pm PT
awesome!
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Dec 9, 2011 - 09:47pm PT
Hmmm. Mac with Firefox. It does work when I look at it with Safari.

Edit: This is probably a result of UTube and Vimeo moving to HTML5 standard, using a codec that is not implemented in Firefox, because of the conflict with open-sourcedness introduced buy royalty fees for the codec. Unless or until this gets worked out, a lot of videos aren't going to play in Firefox. Some people think this a move by Google to force people to switch to Chrome (although for Mac users, Safari also works).
Captain...or Skully

climber
Where are you bound?
Dec 9, 2011 - 09:50pm PT
New application for an old thing. I'm down, where it would be useful.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Dec 9, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
I'm lost.....

What's the point of this system?
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 9, 2011 - 10:00pm PT
It allows you to hang excess gear on a fifi hook while soloing, so you don't have to wear your entire aid rack when starting out to lead the pitch. You could have fifty pounds of gear on a hard aid wall, easily, maybe more. With no partner to zip it up to you, this prevents you starting the pitch carrying too much weight. When you need gear, you can pull up your solo tag rack, hang it on a fifi and carry on.

The slippery overhand knot is a backup to the fifi. The "bag" is a solo tag rack that holds all your gear, your lunch, a can or two or beer if you have packed appropriately, maybe your rain gear if things are looking a little grim, and perhaps an inflatable sheep. The rack also has a bag that holds the remainder of your lead rope. Your excess lead rope is what you use to pull up the rack. The top of the haul line attaches to the bottom of the rack, not to you.

Learn, study, and practise. You definitely want this arrow in your quiver, Paul.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 9, 2011 - 10:04pm PT
One man's blankie is another man's sheep.

Geez, Hugedong, you deleted your post.

Voice of Bob McKenzie: "Oh, way to leave me hangin', eh?"
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2011 - 10:08pm PT
Sorry but I saw you had already explained it to Paul.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Where are you bound?
Dec 9, 2011 - 11:34pm PT
There are various methods.
SWH

Trad climber
Dec 10, 2011 - 12:13am PT
So, I'm a solo aid rookie, but why even use a fifi hook at all in this system, why not just use the slippery knot? It seems to me that leaving the hook in the system just increases the chances that the tag bag will get stuck, either on the anchor or while hauling... school me!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Dec 10, 2011 - 12:45am PT
Hmmmmm, never thought of that one. If the rack were hanging on the knot itself, how would that work? It would make the knot pretty darn tight, which could be advantageous. Would it be harder to pop the final knot to release it?
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2011 - 01:14am PT
With just a rack hanging on the knot it might not be too hard to pull out, if you have a bag of any weight, it could be really hard.

Although! Feature this:

On ZM this spring, I was doing the big hooking pitch at the bottom of the Circle, The start of the 9 O'clock Roof Pitch. I was about 20 feet out dead left of the tag bag, on hooks, when all the tag line started to funnel out of the its rope bag, I sat there and watched it, there was nothing I could do, finally the weight of the falling rope popped all the Slippery Knot and the whole deal came tight onto the Fifi hook. Without the hook, the bag would have just gone the distance and then onto my waist with me on a hook!

You want to use a Petzl Fifi so that the force of the falling rope comes onto the bottom of the hook, thereby pulling it even more into the anchor.

kaholatingtong

Trad climber
nevada city, California
Dec 10, 2011 - 01:16am PT
sarcasm is such a slippery beast in text.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Dec 10, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
Thanks for schooling me. Mark, nice job on the video!

Sounds easy enough. I just didn't take into account the potential rack weight one would need.

So the tag rack is tied to the free end of the lead line and from there the haul is attached to that. So if I understand this correctly, at some point you'll have to pull up the tag rack to continue on up, which if a guess right would be around the half way point of the rope?
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