donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2011 - 01:11pm PT
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Then again.....can it be infinite? Either possibility boggles the imagination. I just got to the Atacama Desert, a place that brings cosmological questions to mind.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Hey Jim - I've spent some wonderful days and nights in the Atacama checking out mountain tops for siting a giant telescope. That place is magical.
EDIT: and the universe has zero curvature and is infinite based on the WMAP results. Probably the zero curvature is the result of a very early phase of exponential inflation of spacetime.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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I took the train from Antofagasta to La Paz, one of the most incredible rides ever.
As for finite vs. infinite: what is longer, for ever or never? The human mind cannot imagine infinite space. Although it's fun to try!
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war
climber
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every time you have a though which raises a choice you then make, you birth another universe,
the one the other choice was made and acted on
everyone does this all day every day
well,
almost everyone
some buddist and hindu have learn to stop doing this
stop manufacturing karma
but they are few,
you heard the notion that we all come from
are actually the products of some some foam?
reality is a fictions and nothing exists but this uniform dimension
thats simple the recognition off all these universes
all these choices which spawn alternative destiny
all little bubbles
innumerable
foam
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Collie-Rad-O! (FC to be exact)
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Universe???? There's "MULTI-VERSES" out there...or so the theory goes...try wrapping your head around that one!
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MH2
climber
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I don't think the universe is currently infinite. The microwave background studies give good estimates of the stuff in it and the age is not infinite either. However, it looks to be headed for infinite age and expanse (and zero density?) but will take a while to get there.
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war
climber
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our theories agree that there are multiple universes,
the extend of our one pales in recognition that it is merely a single in an uncountable multitude
a fact which the recognition of a single other one demands
theyre currently refered to as branes i believe
gravity is weak
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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I know one this for sure. The universe if fakkin huge. Major league.
I used to go up on the Puna and look down at the Atacama basin to feel that way though. It's all perspective.
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Been thinking about this since I was 7 years old.
Some of the modern physics helps a lot with this question.....multiverses
But the reality is that this very simple question is a paradox in our awarness and consciousness.
We can't know the answer but at least we can understand that we can't know the answer.
We are just arrogant insects - for lack of a better metaphor.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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We'll never know for certain if it's infinite. There'll be no way to prove it directly.
We could eventually find out that it's finite.
A lot depends on how we define "universe"
If we mean the universe we live in, it appears to be of finite extent and of definite age.
Current interpretations of astronomical observations indicate that the age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years,[6] and that the diameter of the observable universe is at least 93 billion light years or 8.80×1026 metres.[7] According to general relativity, space can expand faster than the speed of light, although we can view only a small portion of the universe due to the limitation imposed by light speed. Since we cannot observe space beyond the limitations of light (or any electromagnetic radiation), it is uncertain whether the size of the universe is finite or infinite. Although the universe MAY be much larger than we know, even possibly infinite.
If indeed there are other universes, there may or may not be an infinite number of them.
This all begs the question of what was before the Big Bang. Would we consider that as part of our Universe as well? What if, as we understand the word "thing", there was nothing before the Big Bang?
What is meant by infinite?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jim,
Enjoy your stay in the Atacama. The desert has always been my favorite environment and can only imagine what your seeing right now.
I had a great time at Joshua Tree climbing with you, I really learned a lot believe it or not. I am determined to become a better crack climber, you got me motivated and will be back out at JT soon because of it.
Thanks,
Kevin Mokracek
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war
climber
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you still building guitars kevin?
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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good questions but no answer is possible
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war
climber
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no answers are needed,
questions drive probabilities
and probabilities drive science
kevin told us once a great store about running to leap over a gap with one of your boys on your shoulders,
the boy at the last second happened to put his hands over your eyes as he placed his grip for the event
despite being blinded
kevin made the leap
landed successfully, despite the impedance
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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The age of the galaxies, suns, and planets, might be something we think that we can calculate but I don't think that there is any way at all to know if there is empty space out there beyond all of the matter we predict exists. Maybe things wrap around the the other side, maybe there is empty space, and maybe there is a brick wall painted black so we can't see it.
The only thing we can know about are the measurable parts and once matter is accounted for, there is a whole lot of nothing that can't really be measured.
Neither finite or infinite are things we can comprehend because the concept of a finite universe just begs the question; what is beyond the edge of that finite thing?
Dave
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war
climber
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your asking for the jury verdicts to be revisited ya know
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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For the past 100 years each discovery in physics seems to paint a yet more complex picture of this universe. Each new theory seems less intuitive and more bizarre than the one before. The day of the average joe having any accurate understanding of how the universe works is long gone.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Can physics tell me if the effect of today's Indian buffet lunch will be finite?
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Dave - you can have finite universes with no boundaries in the dimensions that define your universe. The old surface of a sphere analogy works well. An ant that only senses the two dimensions on the surface of the sphere goes for a walk and after a while is right where he started because the space is curved. But, the ant never saw any boundary to its finite universe.
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