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JSpencerV
Trad climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 6, 2011 - 09:06pm PT
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I am learning to solo aid and here is my sequence. Any comments and feedback would be helpful. I am compiled this sequence from reading information in forums and I have tried it once on a singe pitch solo aid.
Arrive at belay and build bomber anchor
Attach one end of the lead line to the PowerPoint with figure 8 on a bite with two locking beaners opposite and opposed or clove hitch backed up by a figure 8.
Anchor haul bag via a munter mule on a big locker on the power point and tie off a back up
Tie haul rope and lead rope together with a double fisherman’s or overhand (not sure which is better in this case, maybe double fisherman’s because it won’t slip?)
Attach rope bag (not sure yet what is best to use, currently using a laundry bag with wire holding the top open but it’s kinda bulky) somewhere and flake in rope into bag from the haul end to live end
Pull out 30 feet of rope and clove it into yourself as a backup with a twistilock carabineer
Attach Gri Gri with a steel beaner to the live rope
Lead the pitch (some have suggested a prussic on the first piece to keep the anchor pulling upward and rubberbands/clove/munter every 40ish feet to keep the rope from sliding back-not sure what is best)
At the top build a bomber anchor with three fat Williams Beaners for easy large clipins
Attach yourself with both daisy chains to anchor at the top shelf and to a Williams (I know you aren’t supposed to anchor with these but I believe two is redundant and I have girth hitched the ends of them a locker so they won’t rip fully if clipped in short)
Fix the soon to be jug line
Pull most of the slack in the previously lead and haul line via coils and tie off with a runner and attach out of the way on a Williams
Place protraction on it’s own double runner equalized, a bolt, or the PowerPoint (not sure if the protraction is supposed to be on top or beneath the jug line if it is on the power point)
Here is by big question??? Should I pull up the haul line and then leave about 5 feet of slack. Then would it be safe to take a prussic cord and attach it to the haul line (the line I am about to rappel), disengage to protraction teeth but have the line run through it and then tie off the opposite end with a figure 8 on a bite with a bit of slack. This system seems like it would work. If the prussic fails, the haul line will be caught in a few feet by the backup, and it avoids the teeth cutting the rope (should I engage to protraction with the teeth?)
I then rap the haul line clean some pieces as I go, lower out the bag and jug the lead line
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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YER GONNNA DIEEEEEEE!!!!
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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You can just tie the rope off and then do a mini haul to get slack in the system. Much cleaner and probably safer as well
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
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Have there been problems with Protraxions cutting ropes under load?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I haven't completely worked out your system, Jared, but so far so good. You'll learn more soon and you'll smooth out the rough edges.
If you are hauling with a 2:1 system you'll have no problem attaching the pulley system to a tight haul line so there is no need to run the rope through the mini-trax or pro-trax before rapping the haul line. Simply make up a bomber anchor and rap the haul line.
If you are hauling 1:1 I think I'd pull up a few feet of slack then tie an 8 knot and then put a Kleimheist knot below that and leaving a foot of slack between it and the back up 8 knot.
My typical solo anchor. The green line is my lead rope, set up equalized to those two bolts for me to jug it while cleaning. The black line is my haul line that I'm using to rappel on to get back to the lower anchor.
Giant honkin biners on the bolts allow other things to be clipped to them without "pinning" other biners and since they are beefo strong, they are still able to open under a load. I'm not really using them for their excess safety but more for their convenience.
So far, in two El Cap solos, 45/50 pitches, I've jugged on probably three Kleimheist knots per pitch and none have ever slipped, it's an amazing knot. I make up three foot loops of 5 mil and they work fine.
Another solo anchor. See how the haul line is equalized to three bolts and the lead line is equalized to two bolts?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Mark that configuration reminded me of something Dave said about one of the Scorched belays; the bolts were in a diamond pattern.
why would they end up in a diamond pattern?
But after seeing your pic with the equalization, I could at least see making good use of the configuration, even if I don't understand how they got that way.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Mark,
All this anchor talk is gettin' me fired up to work hard on our systems for Adam's and my first wall this spring. (We squandered our weather window climbing free routes in Tuolumne, remember...) Thanks for all your input. We'll be in touch!
And good luck on your solo JSpencer!
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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Hudon to the rescue...
Seriously, Mark has a bunch of great tips. Not necessarily all invented by him, but used by him and presented in a very clear and easy to understand way.
Way to go Old Dog for helpin out us Young Bucks!
Question, Mark, when you haul from your anchor, do you haul off of equalized bolts or just clip one and go? I never see what your actually hauling off of.
Cheers.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.
The most common setup is three bolts horizontal. Max and I were talking about the best setup and we came up with three bolts in a triangle. That way the top bolt backs up the other two. You could jug off one and haul off the other and the top one would be the back up for both. I've never seen an anchor like that unfortunately. On ZM the anchors looked like they had been placed by a blind man, bolts were all over the place.
No I don't back up the bolt I haul off of. I don't know why, I just never bother. John Fine and I thought we would back up that bolt to another with a sling with a Screamer attached to it but I've never done it. Ultimately the rope is backing you up to the rest of the anchor.
Micronut - I expect great things from you, young man, Mescalito in costumes!!! Beavis and Butthead maybe?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Here is a non-solo anchor shot.
See how I've used a butterfly knot to equalize the left and middle bolts? A butterfly knot is great because you can move it up and down the rope without untying it and also increase or decrease the size of the loop without untying it. Using a butterfly makes equalizing your anchors easy and fast and pretty much negates the need for a cordalette and power points.
In the photo below, see how I've equalized the three bolts coming from the right? I could have made a bigger loop on that far right bolt and eliminated the sling but this was just when John and I were figuring out the butterfly knot thing. That there was the last time I every used a cordalette also.
I don't have a photo of it, I'm bummed I didn't take one, but the last anchor of the PO is a rare, totally climber built anchor. I had six cams, all equalized with butterfly knots with three cams dedicated to the hauling and the other three for jugging. It took me about 15 minutes to set up and used no slings or cordalettes. You know, using just the rope that you already have!
I taught Max my butterfly anchor technique on the South Seas and he was all over it!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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When I climb big walls, I like to take a lot of stuff. The Petzl Pro-Traxion is the biggest piece of junk ever made - it is poorly engineered, and will deform under load. If you plan on climbing big walls, spend a few extra bucks and get the ultra-burly Kong Block-Roll, which is also hugely easier to haul with. Your loads will come up faster and easier because the pulley is big and efficient - far more so than the crappy Pro-Trax pulley - which more than compensates for its higher cost and weight. It also works fine with a 2:1, and you don't have to lower it with a Frost draw or wired stopper like you should do with other devices, because the inverted cam sits well below the pulley.
I used to always rap straight off the Block-Roll, and you can do this as well with a Pro-Trax as both are rated for "live loads". The upside-down-Klemheist-under-the-pre-rigged-hauling-device is a brilliant idea, which someone other than me came up with. A knot in the top end of the haul line above the hauling device never hurts, either. To me, this is much easier than rappelling off of a knot, and then lifting it into the hauler with your 2:1 hauling ratchet.
"Prusik" rebelays - really tied as a Klemheist - are the bomb when soloing because
 a rebelay close to your lower anchor and pig can keep your lead rope under a bit of tension and keep all carabiners and stuff lined up correctly and not under gate load
as you climb, you accumulate rope between you and your lower anchor. If you are using an unmodified Grigri to solo, the weight of this rope hanging below you will cause rope to slide through your Grigri unbeknownst to you, thus putting extra unwanted [and dangerous!] slack between you and your lower anchor. A long Klemheist rebelay every so often [3 to 5x per pitch] will hold the weight of the rope, and prevent this slack from entering the system. [I don't believe this is as much of a problem with a Silent Partner]
while a rubber band will do the same trick, the rubber band doesn't take your weight when jugging and cleaning like the Klemheist will - it simply breaks. The huge benefit of the Klemheist rebelays when jugging and cleaning is that when properly done, you can prevent ALL abrasion on your lead rope
if you are climbing with a partner and there are no rebelays in your moving lead rope, then when you later jug and clean the lead rope, your rope will rub across every single edge between you and the upper anchor
but if you are soloing, and then jugging and cleaning, your lead rope will be held at each Klemheist rebelay, and your weight will be taken there. If you rebelay before obvious rub points like edges and roofs, you can guarantee that your rope will never rub. In other words, your weight is held by each successive Klemheist as you jug and clean, and doesn't rub on sharp edges. Making this work takes some practise, as you have to leave a little bit of slack in the system to make it work. If you simply stretch the lead rope tight each time, then the subsequent Klemheists will lose their grip, and your rebelay benefits will be lost. It is an art and a science, and you need to practise how to "re-use the slack", which will become apparent after you try it a few times
you also have to consider the consequences of what a fall will to your system. Accordingly LONG Klemheists must be used - see below
I do have two rather serious issues with Mark's setup below:
"I make up three foot loops of 5 mil and they work fine."
Issue #1: The bloody rope isn't clipped through a carabiner! What the hell you gonna do if you fall directly above this thing?? What are you thinking, dude?!
Solution: Clip a draw to the bolt, clip the rope through the draw, and put the inverted Klemheist not on the bolt, but rather on the draw - see below
Issue #2: The higher you climb above your anchors, the more lead rope you introduce into the system. If you take a lead fall twenty feet above your lower anchor, there will not be much rope stretch. But if you take a lead fall a hundred and sixty feet above your lower anchor, there will be a pisspot full of rope stretch. What about your Klemheist rebelays?
If your Klemheist knot grips your rope where you don't want it to [somewhere at a rebelay well above your lower anchor] then you have removed all sorts of lead rope from your system, and significantly increased your fall factor. In the worst case scenario - imagine your lead rope clove hitched straight into a bolt - you could create the situation of a Factor 2 fall!
Accordingly, you MUST use LONG Klemheist rebelays or you can get yourself into trouble in the event of a fall. You can use shorter 5mm "prusik" loops down low, where maybe a three-footer would be ok, but as you climb higher on the pitch, you must use longer loops. You should carry several of different lengths, using them in order from shortest to longest. Up high, you should add a shoulder-length sling to your pro, and put the rebelay on the bottom of the sling, so that if you fall, there is the length of the sling plus the length of the prusik loop to lift during rope stretch, before the Klemheist will begin to grip.
Now, in theory, the Klemheist is a one-way asymmetric knot, so in theory it shouldn't grab your rope during a fall and hold it at a rebelay, but why would you take that chance?
Don't set yourself up for any possibility of increasing your Fall Factor mid-pitch.
You should also use dedicated Yates Screamers down below with a locker on each end, and use your pig as a "belayer" by attaching the lead rope to the pig with a butterfly between the end of the lead rope at your power point, and the middle part of the lead rope that you are climbing on.
The use of Screamers is especially critical if you are not hauling, and therefore don't have a pig to use as a "belayer", and you are forced to build upside-down anchors, which is time consuming and tricky. If you have a heavy pig, it makes your anchor building a lot easier. In fact, I always found it so hard to build upside-down anchors that I used to bring my pig to the practice crag, filled it with rocks [choose round rocks without sharp edges and points, and make sure your pig is well padded on the inside] to use as a belayer. Then after cleaning, I would practise hauling it.
Note: You should also practise rappelling back to the ground with your rock-filled pig, as rocks chucked off the top of practise crags tend to annoy people. Neither should you leave a pile of rocks at the top, as tourons can find interesting things to do with them.
Cheers,
Pete aka "Dr. Piton"
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Listen to Pete, he's a weirdo, but he knows his sh#t (taught me most everything I know)!
That photo of the Klemheist right there, Pete, was a mistake. I realized that soon afterwards and started doing as you suggest, clipping the bolt with a biner or quickdraw.
Pete,
On ZM last spring, I fell off the 9 O'clock Roof pitch (a cam pulled) and went about 25 feet. It was an easy, slow fall but I was about 20 feet off to the side of my rope coming up from the belay. I had placed a Klemheist knot at about that level and did in fact notice that the stretch of the rope had caused it to move up, hit the biner on the quickdraw and loosen. I looked over and thought, "Sweet, that works"!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Cool - big wall theory in action.
If you spent as much time on the walls as me, you might knott consider inflatable sheep and Helga dolls to be so "weird". They could even become part of your gear list.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Riley,
See how in my klemhiest knot photo if a climber from above should fall onto it, he would fall onto the knot, the nylon cord? Clipping the rope into that bolt right there with a draw or biner would cause the fall to be caught on the biner and not the knot.
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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Klemist vs prussik.
Why one and knott the other?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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The klemhiest knot is a one way knot. It'll hold one way and not the other. If you fall the stretch of the rope will cause it to move up to the upper biner and loosen, allowing the rope to do its job.
That answers both questions.
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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BADASS!
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Klemhiest = releasable under load
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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So is solo counter hauling a good idea where you rap down the bags come up, with the Far End haul system in place in case the bags get stuck, and a braided back up knot in case the fifi blows?
I have been using it in practice, but wonder if there is any drawbacks I am not aware of? It wouldn't work if the bags were heavier then the climber, but other then that...?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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What happens if the bag gets stuck and you can't reach it?
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