Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 24, 2011 - 11:12am PT
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I went back last month with George B. to climb Super Chicken, on the left side of Medlicott. "Wild" Jim Wilson and I had done the first ascent back in 1974. The ST guide lists it as a four star crack climb, but with a 5.7 X third pitch that is so seldom done that it is standard procedure to bring two ropes and rap off after the second pitch.
Memory is a funny thing. I have vivid memories of leading that third pitch, a knob-studded arete , which climbs on lower angled rock that borders the vertical and overhanging face where Scorpion and Wailing Wall go. But I had zero memory of the hand crack second pitch that Jim had led on the first ascent.
I think this illustrates the rewards of risk in climbing, a topic that has been discussed much in recent threads, especially the Superpin bolt kerfuffle. Thirty seven years later, I had forgotten entirely the fantastic 5.9 hand crack that I didn't lead, but still remembered vividly the run out 5.7 face that I did lead. I recall marveling at the path of golden knobs at the hanging belay that Jim had just installed and champing at the bit to get on it. I started up and it was easy climbing, so I just kept going.It was our practice in those days to not put in a bolt until you really needed it, to try to keep the route in as natural a state as possible. Well, the climbing never got so hard that I felt I needed a bolt and I just kept climbing until the rope ran out, and put in a two bolt belay. I recall a short step about halfway up where there was a paucity of knobs, but it only made me pause a moment to be sure of the holds and I blew past this without a problem. The name Super Chicken was inspired by this third pitch, due to that highway of chicken headed knobs.
Back to last month. George led the approach pitch and I got to lead the 5.9 crack this time. What a pitch it is! Hand jamming like many climbs in the valley below, but not like a valley hand crack at all because of the knobs that appear as you progress, both on the face and on the edges of the strangely fluted crack itself. The crack eventually peters out but the wall kicks back and big knobs appear for a 5.9 move to a two bolt belay, just below the arete.
I hadn't been climbing a lot and I didn't intend to do the third pitch this time, but I took a good look at it and longed to go up it. But there is a season for higher risk routes in a climbing career and that season is passed for me. Back safely home, I entertain the idea that with another week of playing the knobs in TM, I could easily manage it.
Why not add a bolt or two to make that third pitch more reasonable, so most people wouldn't have to rap off, right at the start of the most beautiful and unique section of the route? SC is not a test piece like the Bachar Yarian or Southern Belle. No top climber is going to seek it out to demonstrate his or her mastery. Snake Dike and West Country have had bolts added with the consent of the first ascent party (see Eric Beck's and Doug Robinson's comments in the recent "route ownership" thread) and ensured fun memories for many a 5.7 leader.
But, by consenting to adding bolts, I would be working against what makes the TM experience rewarding and rare. TM has an ethic of preserving the risk in climbing and I woudn't want to contribute to erosion of it. It is a testament to that ethic that no one has added a bolt to this pitch for 37 years.
But on the other hand, adding a bolt or two would allow cautious (timid?) climbers, including my present self, the opportunity to access some great climbing without undue risk.
Opinions? How about you Wild Jim?
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nature
climber
back in Tuscon Aridzona....
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Sep 24, 2011 - 11:19am PT
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I'd vote for adding them.
I'm sure you'll get some detractors and their opinions are certainly valuable.
You guys put it up and as you won't be turning it into a sport route....
2 bolts in 150'(?) is still pretty sporty.
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The Warbler
climber
the edge of America
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Sep 24, 2011 - 11:31am PT
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Maybe you could reroute the last pitch onto some independent, slightly harder climbing and bolt that variation. I know nothing about the route, other than what you wrote here, Rick, but I'm guessing a 150 ft 5.7 pitch in Tuolumne has climbable rock to either side. If you could put up a third pitch in the 5.9 to 10- range, and protect it better than the original 3rd pitch, climbers would have a choice.
Just wouldn't want to see the new bolts too close to the original way.
Looks like a great line in the photo.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Carson city Nev.
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Sep 24, 2011 - 11:52am PT
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Honestly,, there have been numerous anchors installed on various climbs to make them top ropable one pitch climbs (Darth Vaders revenge). Adding two bolts probably wont make that any more popular for the majority.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 24, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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keep the route as is. time and age have now have you second guessing.
the whole point of climbing, especially in the meadows is to step up your game if you want to climb there.
i am so against bolts getting added these days for connivence and the masses. if you can;t do 5.7 run out then they should not climb there.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 24, 2011 - 12:12pm PT
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Seems to me maybe one or two bolts in 150 feet would not chance the TM feel that much and may result in some deserved attention to the route. But I'm in my 40s and have kids so don't listen to me!
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Sep 24, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
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would a fall near the top of that pitch be assured death? dismemberment?
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Sep 24, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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It's up to you - you put it up (if you buy into that ethic).
If it were up to me - and it's not - I'd add enough bolts to make the X rating into an R rated climb. Keep the pucker, lose the death TM.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 24, 2011 - 01:21pm PT
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I just top-roped that pitch (when replacing anchor bolts - we'd replaced the second pitch pro bolt and one anchor bolt earlier), and I remember 100 feet of gorgeous knobs to some slightly flakey slab - really scary looking since I couldn't even find a poor knob to tie off. One or two bolts would still leave an R/X rating because if you fall you'll probably go over the arete to the right.
You can't go to either side - to the right is a drop-off (i.e. much steeper terrain) and to the left is a massively runout section of Pussy Paws (100+ feet of 5.9, then one bolt and a bit of 5.10). The exact path of that pitch of Pussy Paws is pretty indistinct since there are no bolts at all for so long (and it's kind of flakey slab with some knobs). If you were to climb the steep right edge of the arete (which might well be possible at 5.9/10) you would need a number of bolts, but it would be really contrived since you could just step around left to easier terrain.
Also you can get some great well-protected knobby climbing lower down on that arete right now with a little bit of effort. We put up a 2-pitch route just left of Super Chicken a few years ago, Loco Yokel. The arete pitch left of the hand crack pitch on Super Chicken is an excellent 5.8-ish knob-fest with a move or two of easy 10 at the bottom, well-protected when 5.9-10 and a bit spaced when 5.7, and it's possible for experienced folks to rappel at an angle from pitch 2 of Super Chicken to the hanging belay and climb just that pitch. The first pitch off the ground is a hard 10+, bolts and gear (especially thin). Just beware that it's a real hanging belay, only a 2"-wide ledge for your feet on a steep wall. I had to climb the upper 3/4 of the arete pitch rope-solo because both of my partners were too smart to want to hang out at that belay while I drilled!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 24, 2011 - 01:34pm PT
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Follow your gut feeling Rick. You've got a good mind, I trust it.
I wonder how many times that pitch has been done sans bolts?
I might have done it BITD, but even though I'm still a reasonably solid climber now, I'd probably rap. I've got four kids and my boldness bone has shrunk over the years.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 24, 2011 - 01:44pm PT
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Rick- Such a pleasure to meet you at last at Jeff's birthday party!
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it!
With a name like Super Chicken how could you not honor the Chicken and add a few bolts? There is a place for both approaches but given the grade and quality of the climbing of the entire route as you describe it, if you are hesitant to take on the runouts at 5.7 then change the situation as the FA er.
Super Chicken isn't a statement climb or testpiece as you also point out.
Nobody worth paying attention to is really going to give you a bad time about this, I suspect.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Sep 24, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
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You put it up and its your style for it. Hats of to you...if you are asking though I'd personally appreciate the added bolts:-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Sep 24, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
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you are asking though I'd personally appreciate the added bolts:-)
So would most of us......
Except on Superpin, DON'T ADD ONE THERE!!!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 24, 2011 - 02:02pm PT
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Hi Rick,
In hindsight, we all should have been more aware of the issues we would create in running out easy pitches. At the time, I didn't think about placing bolts on moderate pitches, but I am happy that bolts have been added to moderate pitches on routes I did in the same timeframe as "Super Chicken." There seems to be a clear boundary line allowing additional bolts on moderate pitches without overstepping by adding bolts that change the character of a climb.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 24, 2011 - 02:02pm PT
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Why not add a bolt or two to make that third pitch more reasonable, so most people wouldn't have to rap off, right at the start of the most beautiful and unique section of the route? SC is not a test piece.... I have heard the exact same reasoning from other well-known Tuolumne FA-ists. One of them asked me to add a pro bolt to an easier route of his (I had to decline as the ASCA guy), but then was livid that someone had added a bolt to one of his testpieces. He said "some routes were testpieces, but some we just did for fun and we were too cheap to bolt well."
Many say that adding a bolt is a slippery slope. But when the FA does it that is obviously very limiting on the activity. The only case I can remember recently is Bob Kamps adding a bolt to take Ewe Must Be Kidding from X to (very) R. And it has been almost 10 years since Alan Nelson (RIP) publicly offered not only for people to retrobolt his old solos, but that he would reimburse them for bolts. No one took him up on it despite some very appealing terrain (such as three 5.6-5.9 free solos on the right edge of Fairview Dome that would be multipitch if roped). So even when the FA asks other people to retrobolt his routes and even offers to pay for the bolts, still no takers. If it is a slippery slope, it hasn't gotten very slippery at this point.
It's your call, but with 2-3 a lot of people would climb it, and with 4-6 it would be really popular. The top anchor is bomber, Karin and I replaced those bolts 7/29/03. I think they are single-ring Fixe rap hangers, but I can't remember - might just be plain hangers because we didn't expect anyone to get to that point and rap instead of continuing.
It's also worth noting that the top of the 3rd pitch is still only halfway up the wall, there is a lot of climbing terrain up there that is pretty fun and very rarely traveled.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Sep 24, 2011 - 02:19pm PT
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Put some bolts in, so I can safely lead it with a baby on my back.
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The user formerly known as stzzo
Social climber
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Sep 24, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
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Make it an R.
As FA, you're in a unique position with the power (as dictated by the North American retrobolting ethic) to correct what you determine to be an oversight and create a new accessible route (the full route would be more accessible, so that makes it "new"-ish).
Sure, TM routes traditionally make you up your game.
But the whole testpiece thing is a bit overblown. There are a some classics that deserve the title, but a 5.7 pitch in the middle of an otherwise decently-protected route? As you noted, you think not.
The question is really yours to answer: Would you like your route to be a testpiece, or would you like it to be more accessible, to be enjoyed by more people?
You've given your answer, so I say run with it.
And if the decision is hated that much by the community at large, they can restore it by chopping the bolts.
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ec
climber
ca
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Sep 24, 2011 - 05:03pm PT
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Put some bolts in, so I can safely lead it with a baby on my back.
I see a trend here...
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Riley Wyna
Trad climber
A crack near you
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Sep 24, 2011 - 05:38pm PT
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Sounds sweet either way.
Don't think I have climbed this but would love to.
My instinct is leave it the way it is as I enjoyed the story and ethic of your first ascent.
And I personaly love the focus and the feeling of run outs - if you are gonna fall on 5.7 you dont need to be in the route. That's why it says 5.7 (X death)
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sep 24, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
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Nice idea to post this as a question, to see what feedback you get.
I would suggest that the prevailing ethic is that you, as the first ascent party, can add or remove bolts as you wish.
But of course this ethic is tempered by the contradictory consideration that at some point the wider climbing community becomes responsible for anchor decisions.
If it were a popular pitch, then the community would have more claim to ownership, you would have less; it gets sort of grandfathered in, accepted "as is."
In this case, the pitch is seldom, if ever climbed. So perhaps the climbing community has less claim on it, you maybe have more. So I'd say go ahead, add a couple bolts.
Climbing is changing; very few modern climbers enjoying the rest of the route will choose to run out an entire pitch. It's the sort of thing that many of us would happily do for a first ascent, but not for some random 5.7 pitch. One snapped knob and.....
But if anyone shows up on this thread who has actually led this pitch and feels strongly that it should be left as is, maybe that would be a reason to leave it alone.
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