Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 11, 2011 - 11:56am PT
|
Too much smoke here in Wy. There are 14 wild fires in the area. Any way surfin' the net, avoiding the smoke, I found these videos. I can't post the link but they are on Cold Thistle the alpine climbing site. Two recent ascents. The first of a route we did in the mid 70's. Originally named A Cold Dark Place. I guess it did not stick. It then became the Voie Jackson and now the Jackson/Shea Ginat. We rated it ED+ at the time cause it was harder than EDs we had done. It's been down rated to ED/V5+ M5. The crux is about 6:50 in 90/95 deg. It was fun and took about 7 hrs to do the 1000+ meters. Also the Richard Cranium a cool looking route around the buttress to the NW. Twight did this. I don't know when, but a more modern route. The climbing looks like the Colton/McIntyre on the Jorasses.
|
|
Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
|
Steve, had you been French, the original ratings would have held up...
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
|
The Damilano "Snow Ice and Mixed" guidebook has this description:
The Jackson. V 5+
D. Jackson and S. Shea, end July 1978
Icy corner to the right of the Ginat. Wonderful sections at 80/90 degrees.
Here is a shot of the face.
Rick
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2011 - 04:52pm PT
|
Rick, thanks for the photo. The route goes straight up the obvious waterfall coming down from the breche des droites. The start of the hard part is just above the notch in the shadow on the big icefield. The crux is a 30/40 meter corner that overhangs at the top. The video I found is about 14 min and clearly shows the difficulties. They say the corner is crackless. It isn't. I think most parties do it in winter for better ice. We did it in summer and had very thin hollow ice and steep mixed. The ice was so thin that it did not cover the corner but a perfect small wires crack appeared right at the most desperate time. We could not believe this obvious line had not been done. We were at the Argentiere hut and Jean Marc Boivin who was also there with a client confirmed its unclimbed status. We actually beat the Ginat party to the the whole route but that is another story. To what Todd said in the above post, the French were extremely territorial and did not like what the non "gens du pays" were doing. It's ok. As we used to say when we lived there; "the frogs are cool, why walk when you can hop?"
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
|
Thought I might just be able to locate a picture of part of your route.
Is it the waterfall-like ice to the far right in this picture? This is Jack R.'s shot from our ascent of the Corneau-Davaille in 1977. Brit Phil Burke and partner to the right.
This is a fine time for the "other story" about the Ginat!
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2011 - 06:52pm PT
|
Rick, another nice photo! I guess I should have taken a camera more often. That is not our route. It is further to the west out of the photo. That could be the lower Ginat. We never had ice that fat.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
|
Nice Steve. Say, when you went to Europe did you go over on the Nina, the Pinta or the Santa Maria?
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2011 - 07:42pm PT
|
Jesus wept! I am old, I did see the advent of toilet paper and electricity but no way did I ever take a sailing ship. And I am proud to say never climbed in a gym or done a sport route. Heh Heh
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
|
You shame me Steve, I just got in from clipping bolts on four routes.
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
|
You are a better man than me. I just cannot tear myself away from the anxiety of wondering if my pro is any good. I still climb with hexes. Plus you don't need pro in off widths.
|
|
RDB
Social climber
wa
|
|
|
Sep 11, 2011 - 08:24pm PT
|
Fun to see Steve and Rick on here again. FWIW the Jackson/Shea still has a stellar reputaion as one of the very best and more difficult ice routes in the range. Obviously things have changed a lot there in the past 30 years. For one the common language in Cham is English now not French! And they do have toilet paper and a public loo you can walk into and not risk dying.
Most of the mixed stuff is regularly done in mid winter and not at all in summer and seldom in early fall. No ice is the reason.
Last two winter seasons have been the exception and spectacular though. With the Ginat in particular getting hammered with literally steps up the lower ice field of perfect neve. Not uncommon to see half a dozen parties on in on a good day in Feb or March.
Nothing like what Steve climbed on really.
The lines get v threaded early on and get maintained often and most of the locals (as you saw) carry lwt skis up and over on their winter day climbs. 7hrs is still fast for a decent party *mid winter* in perfect neve on "A Cold Dark Place". But the gear and commitment have changed so much it aint like the old days. I met a local Swiss woman who did the Ginat twice in 36 hrs RT from Les Houches! Not even worth a comment these days in Cham. And knew of 2 locals who soloed up "A Cold Dark Place" and down the Ginat. With the Jackson /Shea being done in under 2 hours to the Breche. (new record for the face btw) But all that in perfect neve conditions as well. But also telling on the level of skill of the locals.
They have their own "stone masters" at work.
But no question there is still a lot of respect for Steve's and Dick Jackson's route in the Chamonix valley, even by the locals.
And no question if any of you guys had been French you'd be French National heros today.
You guys...Rick, Steve, Tobin, Mugs, Jack, Mike, Todd, John B. and who knows the all the rest really ripped it up there for a couple of seasons in a row. Proud lines that guys are still damn happy to get up and add to their own tick lists. ED+ and V+ is still considered some serious sheet even by the local french and brit's standards.
|
|
RDB
Social climber
wa
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
|
Let me try to clarifiy Jack's picture a bit with the modern labels for the routes. Rick and Steve get to rightfully call the routes what ever they were to them bitd. From Rick's comment, "Brit Phil Burke and partner to the right". Burke is actually in the M4/5 section of the Ginat on the first steep bit after the lower ice field.
Jack and Rick could actually be on the first bit of headwall of the Axt-Gross. (Wolfgang Axt et Werner Gross, du 24 au 26 juillet 1962) But much more likely they are on the Messner vari that then meets the Axt-Gross in a couple of pitches. I think it is that small little buttress of rock in the picture between the climbers that devides these two lines. The Messner is a very direct line that the Axt- Gross traverses into from the right. Likely the other plum in that section of the face. No wonder Jack and Rick were drawn to it.
The Cornuau-Davaille actually climbs rock and mixed to the right of the Jackson-Shea and is seldom repeated then or now as a mixed/rock climb.
You need to put the Cornuau-Davaille into perspective as it was done in 1955. No one got on really steep ice intentionally for another 2 decades. Amd the big north faces were cthen only climbed in what we now would consider really dry conditions.
That fine white plum line on the far right of Jack's picture is what the curent guide book author Damilano now calls "the Jackson". I love France and all the history there but the French would never stand for that kind of insult to their own climbs and climbers.
Not every line here is accurate or for that matter all the lines done draw in there. Messner's line is absent and one of the more obvious ice lines. Damilano's current English guide is a better source of info and the details.
1.Eperon Tournier intégral (Fernand Claret-Tournier et Charles Authenac, 1937 - Sylvain Jouty et Claude Deck, 1971 pour la version intégrale)
2.Couzy-Salson (J. Couzy et R. Salson, du 14 au 15 juillet 1952)
3.Cornuau-Davaille (Philippe Cornuau et Maurice Davaille, du 5 au 10 septembre 1955)
4.Axt-Gross (Wolfgang Axt et Werner Gross, du 24 au 26 juillet 1962)
5.Boivin-Gabarrou (Jean-Marc Boivin et Patrick Gabarrou, du 2 au 3 août 1975)
6.Colton-Brooks (Nick Colton et C. Brooks, 1977)
7.Ginat (J. Ginat, G. Modica, JP. Simond et JM. Troussier, 24 juillet 1978)
8.Voie Jackson (S. Shea et D. Jackson, fin juillet 1978)
9.Richard Cranium Memorial (Mark Twight et Barry Blanchard, 1990)
10.Rhem-Vimal (1992)
11.Barnoud-Marsigny (Paul Barnoud, Bernard et François Marsigny, du 31 décembre 1992 au 1er janvier 1993)
12.Baptistoune (François Bernard, David Cayrol et David Ravanel, 3 février 1994)
13.Tristan Quintana (Joan Quintana i Paredes, hiver 1997)
14.Col de l'Aiguille Verte - Face N
Sorry not trying to be a ass here just thought the history should be clear...some fine climbing done by the guys commenting on the thread.
More on the Messner route here:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2011/03/alpine-playground.html
And the Ginat here:
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010/04/back-in-chamonix.html
And a good picture up the ice lines of the first headwall...the Jackson/Shea aka "A Cold Dark Place" should either the middle or more likely from what I have been told the far right hand, steep and thin little ice runnel. The line Mick Burke is on is straight above Colin in this picture. And I think Rick and Jack climbed around the obvious buttress to the left. If I have the runnels correct in my mind the middle and obvious thick line of ice in between gets done as well...just not very often. You would still be doing the Ginat. The Jackson-Shea is harder and has a "grand" reputation and the left line on the Ginat here is a lot easier and better protected.
photo courtesy of Colin Haley
Steve, Rick does any of that look familiar?
|
|
phil burke
Mountain climber
tideswell
|
|
Guys
I just came on this piece.
My partner "Matey" Lloyd and myself just followed our noses up the face. I always thought, as soon as I read the description, that we had in fact climbed The Shea route.
We soloed the ice field in the dark to the foot of the spur, where we caught up with Jack & Rick. We then followed the spur to it,s top L.H. side & climbed a steep vertical corner. The next pitch which I led was a very difficult mixed pitch, which I think is the photo. It went on in this vain until we reached a couloir running down from the breche, which we followed. As agreed we waited on the summit for Jack & Rick and then descended the next day
I,ve never pursued a claim on the route, but clearly we had climbed the 1st ascent of either the Shea or Ginat.
you decide
|
|
phil burke
Mountain climber
tideswell
|
|
Steve
Thanks for the welcome
I met up with Chouinard in Scotland once. We all used to laugh about one of his catalogues which described climbing breeches as "made from recycled Scottish gamekeepers trousers"!
Phil B
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 9, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
|
Not checking ST much and just saw this. Our route for sure is/was the right most climable ice runnel. From the Argentierre hut that year it looked like a good line. The hut gaurdian told us it was unclimbed, Boivin was there with a client. Interestingly at the top in the snow gully we saw no signs of recent passage which was strange because the Ginat was supposed to have been done just a couple of days prior. There had been no storms. Of course we did not know about the Ginat til later and the guardian who was a buddy of Boivin's said nothing about it but was certain our route had not been climbed. It was a difficult route, steep with one very long overhanging stretch capped by a roof. That section had very thin ice but decent rock pro. We rated it ED+. We felt it was significantly more difficult than all the ED's we had done, at least that year. We got to the Couvercle and were told again that it was virgin ground by that guardian. A few days later I showed Boivin and Valencant the route on a photo and they confirmed. As a matter of fact I think Boivin was the one who first wrote it up in the book at the meteo. We never did write it up but I remember adding the name Cold Dark Place at some point. That's all I know. We definitely were way farther to the right in the photo of Rick and Jack with Phil in the background. Right of Phil that is. Could've been the steep line in the distance. I clearly remember that we were very surprised to find it unclimbed, it was such a beautiful and obvious line. Phil it seems like the Ginat should be called the Burke. SS
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2012 - 08:22am PT
|
Hard to believe we did that over thirty years ago, looks like a trade route now. SS
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!