Red Rocks under imminent threat of development

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ericandlucie

Trad climber
Santa Fe, NM
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 28, 2011 - 11:13am PT
This is getting serious: please read this post http://www.mountainproject.com/v/red-rock-threatened-by-development/107227001 and get involved!
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jul 28, 2011 - 11:26am PT
THANK YOU ERIC & LUCIE, THIS IS CRITICAL!


Here's the contact info (sources: saveredrock.com & blm.gov):

BLM Southern Nevada District Office:
Mary Jo Rugwell, District Manager,
4701 North Torrey Pines Drive
Las Vegas, NV 89130
Phone: 702-515-5000
Fax: 702-515-5023
Email: lvfoweb@blm.gov

Clark county commissioners:
All commissioners can be reached at: (702) 455-3500
All commissioners can receive faxes at: (702) 455-3271
Clark County Commissioners, 500 S. Grand Central Parkway, Las Vegas, NV 89155
Steve Sisolak, District A, ccdista@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Tom Collins, District B, ccdistb@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Larry Brown, District C, ccdistc@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Lawrence Weekly, District D, ccdistd@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Chris Giunchigliani, District E, ccdiste@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Susan Brager, District F, ccdistf@ClarkCountyNV.gov
Mary Beth Scow, District G, ccdistg@ClarkCountyNV.gov

US Senators and Representatives for NV: (and yes, even if you don't live in NV, it doesn't mean you shouldn't contact them)
Senator Harry Reid (D- NV), 202-224-3542, senator_reid@reid.senate.gov
Senator Dean Heller (R- NV), 202-224-6244, heller.senate.gov/contact_form.cfm
Representative Shelley Berkley (D-01), 202-225-5965, shelley.berkley@mail.house.gov
Representative Joe Heck (R-03), 202-225-3252, https://heck.house.gov/contact-me/email-me
Chugach

Trad climber
Vermont
Jul 28, 2011 - 11:59am PT
If Vegas had less than a 50% foreclosure rate and wasn't the epicenter of real estate collapse, I might believe this to be a threat.

Granted, I don't live in Vegas but why would anyone drive past 70,000 foreclosed properties to build 5,000 new ones? Yes, maybe in 50 years the development makes sense. Maybe.

To me it's like proposing an oil well where everyone knows oil doesn't exist. Gets the opposition wound up but seems highly unlikely.
troutboy

Trad climber
Newark, DE
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
Chugach
If Vegas had less than a 50% foreclosure rate and wasn't the epicenter of real estate collapse, I might believe this to be a threat.

Granted, I don't live in Vegas but why would anyone drive past 70,000 foreclosed properties to build 5,000 new ones? Yes, maybe in 50 years the development makes sense. Maybe.

To me it's like proposing an oil well where everyone knows oil doesn't exist. Gets the opposition wound up but seems highly unlikely

It's not always about now. Developers will often get the required zoning/approvals etc, then wait for the right economic climate to build, especially if they have already acquired the land or can get it cheaply now.

I am not familiar with this situation, but just wanted to note that that current economic climate is not always a good barometer.

TS
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:09pm PT
Chugach why are they building houses anywhere?
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
LV developers at work:





Ghastly as this is, the new development envisions 5000-7000 houses virtually adjacent to RR, with an estimated daily population of about 15,000 people.


This last image and other critical information at http://saveredrock.com They promise to have an e-petition but have not yet posted it.

A ready-for-signing e-petition is at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/saveredrock/ but this appears to be last year's version.

However quixotic the endeavor may be, if climbers don't step up in support of the integrity of our wild and open spaces, they will richly deserve the outdoor gym atmosphere and urban flavor that will be the result of their silence.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
Do you ever wonder why Red Rocks has the desolate campground, a dust bowl. Do you think the Casinos want people coming to Vegas and staying in a campground? They ain't going to be building no fancy campground, let me assure you.
I am against this threat of development to Red Rocks, but based on how I've seen the city limits move so quickly towards Red Rocks thru the years at such a insane pace, I can't imagine that they will reign it in where they are at, and do some voluntarily. It is going to take a Presidential edic or some such. Not going to be easy to fight Vegas. You have to make it worth their while.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
So Studly, are you giving in and giving up without a fight or without even trying?
Not very studly of you.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:24pm PT
But do I understand correctly that this issue has to do with gypsum mining?

I haven't looked into this in a while, but IIRC, the proposed development area is at/in vicinity of an old non-operating gypsum mine and the developers are using a "reclamation / redevelopment" angle to try to get the zoning changed to allow their dense residential development.

The proposed site is currenly zoned (last I checked anyway) rural. So the entire thing revolves around a zoning board or planning commission approving a zoning change, and those boards/commissions typically will do whatever the county commissioners demand...shape the analysis around the conclusion type thing.

Without knowing the intimate details, it's hard to design an opposition strategy (for example, some counties or cities have binding long-term use-plan documents that specifcy zoning and variances aren't at the whim of politicians). But lots of places, it IS at the whim of local elected officials and they tend to do WTF ever they want, even in the face of massive grassroots opposition. If they get defeated in the next election, that developer will surely be nice enough to give them a cushy job making twice what they pulled as relatively low-level politicos.

It's a racket, mostly.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:26pm PT
It's a racket that only a strong public outcry can stop.

These corrupt and greedy bastards still care about public opinion.
Starman

Trad climber
Sterling, MA
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
Chugach,

Since when does something have to make sense, to be done?
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Clovis, CA
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:46pm PT
Someone should create a petition, like we did for Red Bull and the Cerro Torre fiasco, and blow up the e-mail boxes of the commissioners.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland
Jul 28, 2011 - 12:53pm PT
ElCap makes the right call, after seeing what developers have done with Boulder over the last 20 years it's all about the money and no amount of public outcry will stop the developers.

The estimates for the Denver metro area is a population increase of 1.5 Million over the next 40 years, Vegas is closer to 2 Million. Where is everybody going to live if they don't start planning now?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 28, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
the proposed development area is at/in vicinity of an old non-operating gypsum mine
It is on the site of the abandoned gypsum mine. It covers an entire mesa as shown on the map. It's also the mesa that separates RRocks from the Las Vegas valley, so if built, the views from the base of the canyon climbs up in RR will be of the development right under your nose with the valley partially obscured in the distance.

and where are they going to get the water? Utah, Colorado. Where are they going to export the smog? Arizona.

RR was toast when they build the subdivisions right up to the boundary.
Welcome to the world's most spectacular climbing gym, complete with multi pitch climbs and imitation wilderness. You might even see a rattler or get a pic of Bighorn Sheep with the city and smog as a backdrop. I've seen both.

Whoever thinks LV is about anything but $$$ is delusional. Just consider their promotional slogan "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"
Come here, party, drink, gamble, screw around, forget all your personal responsibilities for a few days, then go back to the Real World with a clean conscience. It's Adult Disneyland on steroids.

Yes, I know decent people who live/have lived in Vegas including our closest friends who were dammed glad to sell their 3000 sq foot house with pool, get back to California and buy a 1700 sq ft 1940s bungalow with a postage stamp yard. Decent people are the majority of residents. Doesn't change the fact that $ runs the valley.
<<end of rant>>
susu

Trad climber
East Bay, CA
Jul 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
why would anyone drive past 70,000 foreclosed properties to build 5,000 new ones? Yes, maybe in 50 years the development makes sense. Maybe.
Because now is the time to buy. I'd add a signature to vote against it.
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
Jul 28, 2011 - 02:45pm PT
I just sent emails to the people you recommended. Perhaps if enough of us who love the Red Rocks express an opposition to any more development in the Red Rocks viewshed, some good will come of it.
Thanks for the info, Phyl
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 28, 2011 - 02:47pm PT
Red Rocks: View East from 6100 feet near base of Solar Slab towards Vegas, abandoned gypsum mine outlined in blue. This is the approximate area outlined on the earlier posted project proposal map. Las Vegas in distance. Google Earth imagery 1999.


No overlay of gypsum mine.

Edit: Added location of view: approx due East, 36 4.801' N 115 27.891' W, 6129 feet.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 28, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
The current economic climate presents a wonderful opportunity for developers. With so many foreclosures, the city is losing property tax revenue. A perfect time for somebody with an income-generating scheme to apply for permits that might be otherwise scrutinized.
213

climber
Where the Froude number often >> 1
Jul 28, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
And guess where that water to supply these houses is coming from? That's right, a 21st century DWP-style project (except its SNWA this time) building a pipeline to pump various eastern NV valleys' groundwater down south. The eastern Basin and Range will be like Owens Valley, but an order of magnitude worse!

AND the BS climate modeling results (until ENSO is forecasted accurately these models are worthless for actual prediction; as toy models to test climate sensitivities under our current understanding of physics they are valuable as well as for other things, but I digress) are driving them further in this direction. OMG our water system is vulnerable! We need to ensure water for all the lawns!
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 28, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
Save the Lawns!!!
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