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OnL4ch
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 9, 2011 - 03:18pm PT
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hello supertopo. i searched for this topic but was inundated with hundreds of threads, and none quite answered my question.
I'm heading to J Tree with two friends and we need to find the best, most up-to date guidebook for the area that will help us determine how to climb the most awesome routes in the shortest period of time ~3 days. We're from the Bay area and thus far, supertopo makes perfect books for all our purposes, but we can't figure out which to get for J tree.
We'd like to climb bolted sport routes and epic top ropes, and maybe teach ourselves (safely, in small doses) how to use our shiny new active pro...
Our skill level:
sport climbing up 5.10a-d
trad - have racks, don't know how to use them.
top rope - anything up to 5.11d
also, what's a good bouldering guide to J tree?
I appreciate the help.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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You want a book that covers ~500 good routes and problems with more history and lore, or one that covers ~2600 good routes and problems with less history and tales? Both color, both brand new.
Rnady plugged his book above, so I'll plug Miramontes's book. More routes, less stories. Miramontes also has GPS coordinates if that's attractive and apparently an app for your mobile device "with real-time navigation and interactive features, including new route updates and community user comments/notifications."
http://www.wolverinepublishing.com/Joshua_Tree
That's about what the choice comes down to. I'm still rolling the 2nd ed. of Randy's '92 guide, which is just fine for what I need, but the new ones do look cool.
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OnL4ch
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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thanks very much for the help, I really appreciate it. Both of those seem very appealing. The book we'd be more interested in would be the one with more detailed beta for each route. Some guides just seem to have the name, the difficulty and the star rating. We like to know what pro is necessary, if there are bolts and where they are, whether we can easily get to the top to set a top rope, etc.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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You're lucky... it's a "you can't go wrong" kind of choice.
It's like picking the hot blond or the hot brunette.
ps- although I kinda prefer Randy's cover ;)
pps- the more you climb the better you'll get at reading the landscape of a route and you'll rely less on beta.
Imagine what it takes for onsight first ascent guys... you just go. That's climbing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Buy both of the suggested guidebooks, if your finances allow. I'm still using my original Randy Vogel "purple' guidebook and the "Trad Guide to Joshua Tree: 60 Favorite Climbs."
P.S. Added in edit: I'm planning on buying a new guidebook from Randy at the Flanders Fund Raiser.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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I don't want to sound like I'm being a dick, 'cause that's certainly not my intention, but J-tree routes are short enough that you can see all the pro you need from the ground, which is an important skill you should be developing as burgeoning trad badasses. It's super important to be able to roll up to a climb, eyeball it like a geezer and put the sh#t you need on your harness, and leave the sh#t you don't in your backpack. Maybe put an extra 10 percent of crap on your rig for unforseen sh#t, and call it good. The self confidence you gain from being able to size up the pro you need is just as important to your climbing progress as physical ability. Back in the day, before topos told you what color underwear to wear for a particular route, people were good climbers because they believed in their problem solving abilities not just their crimper gaston sick-gnar.
You feel me?
Point is, any guide book will work.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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I've only used Randy's books and have been happy. His latest looks really good.
I agree that buying both is a good option too, especially if you're looking for beta. You can compare between the two.
You buy one book, and one of your partner's buys the other. Easy.
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OnL4ch
Social climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
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wildone, and slater too, what you're saying makes a lot of sense, and as relatively new climbers with a wealth of information available (digital and otherwise), we are definitely at risk of becoming very complacent and reliant upon ultra-thorough guidebook/internet beta. I think part of it is paranoia about being the safest we can possibly be, but I can see how this can easily become an impediment to our "wholesome" climbing development, and I'll definitely heed your advice as we continue to figure this stuff out.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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My first trip to Josh was in 1983, and all that I had was the "classic" old red Wolfe guidebook, but it served me well. Randy's "purple" guidebook was great,since it included lots of new climbs/areas that Wolfe didn't have.
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RtM
climber
DHS
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Mar 10, 2011 - 11:58am PT
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Hey thanks, elcapinyoazz, for that plug!
I find that in JT, except in rare instances, there are many different gear options. When I read other peeps gear notes on the MP, I often find that I used completely different gear.
Sometimes when repeating routes, just to make things more interesting, we would go all cams, or go all wires.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Mar 10, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
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Mountain Project is a great resource (and a site to which I regularly contribute). However, until there is a 3G or 4G network in the Park, it is not an option for siting around trying to figure out what to do and how to get there.
Also, unlike a guidebook, the information on MP does not have a completely comprehensive database, and because it is user-contributed, sometimes the information is detailed and other times very sparse.
With a guidebook, the information is presented in a consistent manner throughout, along with maps and other information. At this point, MP and guidebooks are complementary, and don't replace the other.
As to Wildone's comments, the reality today is that most people buying a guidebook want more information rather than less. Whether guides nowadays cater too much to this is certainly a valid point. But, I have come to the inescapable conclusion that people that buy guidebooks want this kind of detail, don't enjoy wandering around getting lost and like to know what they are getting into.
It is a different demographic that is climbing today than when I started. As a guidebook writer for a place as popular as Josh, you need to be mindful of what people want.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Mar 10, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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I think it would be hard for a first time visiter to find the formations using only MP.
Both of the new guides look really nice, I'll definately be buying one for my next visit- I'm still rolling with that purple one.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 10, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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From Hidden Valley Campground, hike Quail Springs Road west for a few hundred yards. Look for faint trail past Slump Rock heading south. Follow trail to Hidden Tower."...
;-)
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mar 10, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
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As Locker correctly pointed out, MountainProject does an excellent job of describing the climbs listed, but it is awfully thin on finding the climbs. Personally, I plan to buy both of the new guidebooks, but starting with Randy's. And then, I plan to use them on an upcoming trip in conjunction with the Flanders Fund Raiser.
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rakkupRob
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 26, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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The excellent Robert Miramontes book from Wolverine is also available at http://www.rakkup.com/guidebooks/joshua-tree-rock-climbing/ as a download for the rakkup app for iPhone and Android. It's a great price and you get super-fast searching through the guidebook plus turn by turn directions using GPS (even beyond cell phone range). Robert mapped over 200 miles of roads and trails for this guidebook.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Feb 26, 2015 - 01:15pm PT
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Rehash.... I have always liked Randys books, the hiking directions are the best.
I find that using almost anything from MP involves some risk because none of it is proofed.
If you want a good example go look at the driving directions to the east stronghold in AZ. Last time I checked there were three different ways to do the one and only drive...
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rakkupRob
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 26, 2015 - 02:40pm PT
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Two quick thoughts: 1) For the one-time visitor, you can rent the rakkup guidebook on your phone for only $10.99 for 2 months, much cheaper than any of the print guides, and 2) if not getting lost is what you want (and in J Tree that's no small consideration), GPS is the way to go.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Feb 26, 2015 - 02:47pm PT
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On recent trip, used both Miramonte's new book (2nd ed) and the equally massive Randy Vogel book (with White Rastafarian on the front) .
Complement each other well. Glad we brought both.
The Vogel guide is woefully out of date with road and trails and parking. This is unfortunate, clearly the park is making a big effort to direct climbers to use specific trails so as to minimize impacts, there's been huge recent changes.
Miramonte guide of course has the latest info for parking and trails.
On the downside, the Miramonte maps look really good but are cluttered and seem hard to use for, say getting into the Wonderland. They are not actually very sharp; if you peer real close at say the map on page 295 there's some weird photoshop artifacting that blurs details. Vogel's simpler map style is more informative, text shows up better, trails are easier to follow. Of course the Wonderland's such a labyrinth that maybe it's impossible to provide great maps any which way.
Miramonte book sometimes uses photos taken from too far away/printed too small that really don't allow differentiating between lines. But both guides do this sometimes.
Vogel, for each section, places a nice, uncluttered map, clearly labeled, just before each crag/grouping of crags. So as you move around you can easily refer back a couple pages to this map to get yourself oriented. With Miramonte's book, referring back to the relevant map (and thus working out the location of the relevant crag photo for where you want to go next) feels like more work. In the effort to cram lots of routes in as few pages as possible, the material is not so nicely organized.
If I had to pick one, I'd pick Miramonte. His guide has more info, more routes, is more up to date.
Mt Proj? Great for figuring out, over a beer, later, that where you epiced/got lost/found yourself soundly sandbagged was exactly where hordes of others have done the same...
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