SS Chain, Shackle, Hanger Tests

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Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 5, 2010 - 04:00pm PT
Marine supply stores sell SS chain and SS shackles. The shackles cost less than quick links so I thought I would test one. The one thing that bothers me about the shackles is if they unscrew or get loose. I think I would use some Loctite or perhaps give it a good smack with a hammer after getting it tight. Buying the chain is a bummer since you have to cut half the links. I’ve ordered some “twisted D shackles” which should work without the chain link.

Supplier published breaking strengths:
3/8" 316 stainless steel chain link 15,000 lbs ((66.7 kN), smaller won’t fit a fat rope.
Stainless (I seem to recall they stated 304) hanger rated 30 kN (6740lb)
Stainless 5/16" (no material stated) D shackle rated 7700 lbs (34.2 kN)
3/8” SS bolt, nut and washer from local hardware store.

In the first test the bolt failed at 6160 pounds (27.4 kN).

I replaced the bolt (same nut and washer) with a 3/8” hardened carbon steel cap screw. The hanger failed 7195 pounds (32.2 kN).

Really slow boring videos, one with a stuck clamshell (it's hard to be technician, engineer, photographer and videographer without getting something wrong).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4C6pRNZs8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tBpUQjZ9XU
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Oct 5, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
any tests with shackle half unscrewed? Your right about the possibility of it coming undone, me thinks.
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2010 - 08:00pm PT
any tests with shackle half unscrewed? Your right about the possibility of it coming undone, me thinks.

No, don't plan to do that. I think one would visually inspect and tighten a loose one. I think Loctite or or maybe knock a dimple in the shackle with a punch to lock the threads. I might look at ways of doing that.
Strider

Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples.... ಠ_ಠ
Oct 5, 2010 - 08:24pm PT
There is another way of making sure that it does not unscrew without using any tools or Locktite...

Safety wire. The screw pin on the shackle has an eye. Take a small piece of wire, insert through the eye and wrap it around the shackle. Couple loops will make it last for a long time and it is easily replaceable.

-n
Technogeekery

Trad climber
Tokyo, Japan
Oct 5, 2010 - 08:30pm PT
Yes, safety wire is your answer - marine industry has been using it to secure shackles in life-threatening/preserving applications for centuries, it works. Its also cheap, easily replaced, easily undone etc.

I guess shackles are not used in this application so much because they can (and will be, in many areas) stolen / removed so easily.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 5, 2010 - 10:08pm PT
Cool testing!

I would be very interested in the ultimate load values on the mild steel Chinese hardware store quicklinks in 1/4", 5/16 and 3/8". I have always wondered about those pups because there are thousands of them out there in various states of wear. Some idea of the average pristine breaking strength would be really useful since the SWL has always been suspect in my mind. Not much due diligence under a totalitarian regime!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 5, 2010 - 10:11pm PT
Repair links would be the obvious choice.

Why go to the expense of using a shackle?


Don't know how readily available they are in SS, but other than coastal areas, galvanized 3/8" should outlast the installer by many decades.

Some of them in J Tree have a spot weld to close them up permanently.
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
So, that's what the hole is for - mousing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_%28shackle%29#Mousing

Have to find SS wire. Seems like the cut ends of the wire would snag too easily on ropes and slings. I don't like it.
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2010 - 10:28pm PT
Repair links would be the obvious choice.

Why go to the expense of using a shackle?


Don't know how readily available they are in SS, but other than coastal areas, galvanized 3/8" should outlast the installer by many decades.

Some of them in J Tree have a spot weld to close them up permanently.

SS shackles cost less than SS quicklinks.

I think there have been a few related discussions about galvanized, corrosion, cracks and repair links elsewhere on the forum. Anybody want to chime in?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 5, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
At 3/8" strength is a non issue.

If you really need a shackle either buy one with a cotter pin hole or drill the bolt for one.
Strider

Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples.... ಠ_ಠ
Oct 5, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
That wikipedia article has the answer to your concern about the ends of the wire snagging your rope...

Use a plastic zip-tie and flush cut the tail

Even cheaper

-n
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Oct 5, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
Very nice. I still need to get you those old hangers to test.

The fact that you are posting today must mean that you survived your solo sierra trek. Still have both arms?

Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 12:43am PT
Use a plastic zip-tie and flush cut the tail
Ever leave one of those out in the sun? Good for a couple weeks easy.

The fact that you are posting today must mean that you survived your solo sierra trek. Still have both arms?
Let's see, solo is unbelievably boring in the evenings, pretty much rained afternoons and nights. 15 miles on Friday. 26 miles on Sunday. Knees hurt pretty bad. Stomach is getting better after skunky water. Feet are pretty messed up with heel blisters and one big toenail threatening to fall off.

Lessons:
1) Bring a tent, sleeping in the rain in down sucks.
2) Bring a water filter, biology sucks.
3) Bring at least one friend, talking to yourself sucks
4) 5.10 camp 4's are a poor choice for long distance hiking/scrambling.
5) It can be surprisingly dry under a big, thick, low branched tree but try to move in at bedtime, not at midnight when it starts to rain.
6) The 1.5 mile wide, 1200 foot high wall was 1.5 miles wide and 1200 feet high of almost steep enough choss not worth the 17 mile hike in.
7) PUt duct tape on heels before blisters form, not after.
8) I did see some nice small crags near water and good campsites:
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Oct 6, 2010 - 12:55am PT
Any data on the cost of the 3/8" SS chain and the SS shackle?

I don't like using repair links for sport climbing. When the chain attached to the repair link wears out because, no matter how we all try to spread the word, people will lower through the chain... it is difficult (you need a hammer and chisel) to remove/replace the repair link and chain.

Bruce
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 09:28am PT
Lowering through chains - a Darwinian way of eliminating sportclimbers and top ropers.

The chain links are seriously expensive. I can find 316S chain but haven't found 304S which might be cheaper. 316S is gnarly stuff and would be hard to wear out. To get individual links means wasting half of them so net is $3-4 a link. Too much. I have since contacted dealers and you can probably get odd bits and singles cheaper. For the rig in the picture:
Chain link say $3.50
5/16" 316S D link is about $3.50 delivered.
304S hanger can be had for $2.00 delivered
SS wedge bolt about $2.00
A two bolt belay adds up to $20-24

An alternative might be to eliminate the chain link and use a 3/8" twisted D shackle which can be had for maybe $6. saves a buck on each so $2 less per double bolt station.

All of this would be cheaper if you bought in bulk. The Chinese fabricator who makes the chain would probably make single links for you if you wanted a thousand of them and they would be less than a buck each. The shackles might be $2 each in bulk. I have contacted a fabricator in the Czech Republic who can deliver 500 SS hangers to me for $1.68 each. One could get the price of a double bolt station down to $10.

What we need is a real co-op. Originally, REI was a co-op that got expensive, hard to find gear to climbers. Now, REI has become a pretty much typical corporate, capitalist enterprise that hardly sells climbing gear. Maximizing profit means selling fashion and T-shirts at 100% markup instead of climbing gear at 10% markup. They are becoming Eddie Bauer, which used to make the best down gear in the world, invented and patented the first down jacket and now sells cheap clothes.

Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 09:56am PT
Because stainless steel is sexier! Dingus, someday we should cross paths and exchange a few lies. Anyway, the real answer is I have no reason or rational for what I am doing. I'm just goofing off and enjoying it.

On routes where top roping and lowering won't be common, you could use a 5/16" twisted D. The shackle is for raps only, belay to the hangers.

5/16" twisted D link is about $4.50 delivered.
304S hanger can be had for $2.00 delivered
SS wedge bolt about $2.00
A two bolt belay adds up to $17
Cuckawalla

Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
Oct 6, 2010 - 10:19am PT
If you could get Hangers that cheap from the Czech I would throw in some money and get a few hundred to help with shipping costs and such.
Let me know,
Jesse
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
If you could get Hangers that cheap from the Czech I would throw in some money and get a few hundred to help with shipping costs and such.
A couple things to bear in mind, it will probably take a month or two to get them since they would have to fabricate them and ship them surface to keep it cheap. I haven't asked them about tests or certification but I'd be happy to break a few. Also, since you don't live in Mo' Hill, I'd have to repack and reship. The price probably goes up a few cents depending on quantity.

Anyway, I'd be happy to forward my email exchange with them to you or you could just contact them yourself. I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to me right now.
Banquo

Trad climber
Morgan Hill, CA (Mo' Hill)
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
http://www.raveltik.cz/

From their web site, it seems that they actually make the Fixe hangers. So, probably legit.

If anyone wants to follow through on this, I'd pony up for some hangers.
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Oct 6, 2010 - 09:05pm PT
17 miles is way too far to slog to for a chosspile. I know of chosspiles we can climb that are only 2 miles from the car.

Thanks for sparing me the recon! I guess you never know until you go out there and touch the rock...
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