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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 8, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
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There seems to be a flurry of aid content here these days.... So anyone want to give me a run down on far end hauling?
My guess...
1. Set up anchor, and take all haul line slack.
2. Rap haul line, break down lower anchor.
3. Set up hauling system ( grey here?)
4. Jug and clean lead line while hauling, keeping you near the pig being able to free it if necessary.
Prod.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Far end hauler:
1. Build anchor, pull up the majority of excess haul line slack only if lowering out is not needed.
2. Rap down, put second hauler on bag (mini-traxion for example), tie backup knot and clip it in above your swivel (if any). Release the bags. Basically you want the bags pre-rigged through a lower hauler so you cen yard on the free end and ratchet the bags up a couple feet around some feature.
3. Jug/clean.
4. Haul.
5. Haul gets stuck (gulley, lip, etc).
6. Rap lead line to bag, free bag.
7. Rig 2:1 with lower hauler by looping slack side over a biner on a spare jug clipped onto the taught haul line. Haul from down low to get the bag above the offending feature.
8. Jug lead line and resume hauling.
There are some good pictures floating around here somewhere...
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I have a lot of really good shots of this. I'll post them when I get home and I'll reveal a trick that is really slick.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Moof means you put the second hauling device upside-down on the top of the pig. You need to set this up ahead of time if you think the bag might get stuck.
"1. Build anchor, pull up the majority of excess haul line slack only if lowering out is not needed.
No, don't pull up any haul line. Why would you pull haul line out of the haul line bag, only to restack it in a different bag? Stick the haul line bag on the load, making sure that you attach the haul line ABOVE the inverted hauling device. Otherwise if you put the haul line bag on the pig, the pig will twist and wrap itself around the inverted hauler. Swivel is highly recommended when Far End Hauling.
Also, it is standard procedure - even if not far end hauling - to attach the haul line bag to the load so you don't have to pull the haul line out of the bag. Just make sure you attach it in such a way so that when the pig rotates, the haul line bag stays above and the haul line doesn't twist around itself.
An exception to not pulling haul line out of the bag is if you choose to use your excess haul line as lower-out line, which I like to do. Some people use a separate dedicated lower-out line.
When you set up the zed in the haul line above the pig, you should have some sort of pulley on the jug, which you attach to the weighted haul line. It will work using just a carabiner, but is far more efficient with a pulley.
I recommend everyone carry a Personal Pleasure Pulley, which is a non-locking DMM Revolver carabiner, the one with the little built-in pulley. Keep it with you at all times, it has all sorts of uses, and will work well in this Far End Hauling application. Its other principal use is when you are stacking ropes into a bag, which you will do about nine thousand times every wall. Clip your Personal Pleasure Pulley in above the bag, run the rope through it, and pull down with both hands. This will really save help lessen the pain of your "crab claws" you will get from pulling on ropes for an entire wall.
It's handy to have a spare jug when Far End Hauling, however a dedicated hunk of 5mm prusik cord, which you can attach to the rope as a Klemheist knot, will do the job more cheaply. But when soloing, you'll probably have a spare jug on your 2:1 rig, which you could scarf fairly easily should you need to Far End Haul.
I remember Mark telling me about his idea, and it was a good one, I just can't remember what he said.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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The key is not leaving the ground without it pre rigged. I use a mini traxion and it works well. It's a real lifesaver on blocky terrain.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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A Mini Traxion and a GOOD pulley.
A biner will barely work, a Revolver Biner will work better but a pulley with a 2" sheave will be the ticket. I used a Ropeman to anchor it onto the rope.
Far End Hauling is always a pain so you want to get the best gear possible to do it with.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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I have saved myself much struggling using this technique, and broken my ribs trying to muscle the pig when I didn't.
At first it seems like a colossal nightmare to haul a whole pitch this way, and it is. However, if you're solo and topping out on blocky loose terrain, it may well be the right thing to do. I hauled the last pitch of the prow this way to avoid squashing people. It allows you to manage the pig and the loose stuff it starts to launch, even if you're solo.
It can make or break a soloist early on a route with the pig getting stuck 150 feet below the belay. Go down and solve the problem once, rather than rap, move the pig, jug all the way back up, pig gets stuck on the same roof, repeat. Being able to move the pig 10 feet is a life saver sometimes.
-Kate.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
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Looking forward to your pics Mark.
Moof,
If you have a notorious to haul pitch, wouldn't you just far end the whole pitch? I think that is what Kate is saying? This is the set up I am looking for.
Having never soloed and weighing in at 185 I have only hauled 1:1 through a pro traxion on Zodiac (free hanging bags). I have played with 3:1 setups but never used them while climbing. That being said, pics will help greatly.... Or a really detailed cartoon (PTPP).
Cheers,
Prod.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Here's a good shot of the Far End Hauler ready to haul.
Note the Ropeman for lightness and the good pulley for mechanical advantage.
Now, imagine that you've hauled your bags but want to get them a bit higher, maybe you've hauled from a powerpoint along with a 2:1 system and the tops of the bags are three or four feet away from the anchor. Usually this is not big deal and I wouldn't worry about it but let's say this is at a bivy and you want to move the bags higher. Well, If you have the Mini-Trax set up for Far End Hauling, you already have a built in 2:1 pulley system! Do you see it?
You take the end of the haul line and clip it right into the anchor, if you're lucky, you'll have somewhere higher than where you actually want the bags to end up. You take your Far End Hauler Pulley, clip it somewhere else high on the anchor, clip your Gri-gri into your harness and into the rope coming down on the free side of the pulley, apply a little weight (us scrawny 125 pounders can now lift 250 pounds with a 2:1) and Voila, the sack rises!
Dock your bag, apply a bit of weight to the Gri-gri to release the Mini-Trax and there ya go!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2010 - 10:24pm PT
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Thanks Mark,
I get the far end part.
Question.
When you finish the pitch and make your anchor how do you anchor the haul line?
1. Set it up ready to haul through a pro traxion (backed off with a prussic). Permitting you the option of far end hauling and or regular hauling. Or...
2. Tied off to the anchor?
I know these answers are circumstantial, but in general what is the go to method for soloing where far end hauling might be needed, and or is required?
Cheers,
Prod.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Don't ya anchor the bag at that point, Prod?
Then the line is dead.
Do what you will.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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On a solo you have to rap the haul line and then ascend the lead line. I set up my anchors like this a lot.
The black line is the haul line and the other is the lead line. When I was done cleaning the pitch, I'd take apart the lead line anchor and stuff that rope into its rope bag, ready to lead the next pitch. I'd then set up a powerpoint on those bolts and set up the 2:1 system on that. It's not hard at all to get a weighted rope into a Mini-Trax and clipped into the system. Once I got the bag off the haul line anchor, I'd take that anchor apart as well.
If I needed to far end haul, I'd drop the lead line back down and rap it to the bag.
The anchor would end up looking like this, more or less.
If you look closely you'll see the lead line connected to the middle bolt, running over to the left bolt, connected to it via a Screamer.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
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Don't ya anchor the bag at that point, Prod?
Then the line is dead.
Do what you will.
Not sure what you mean Skully?
Mark,
You rap the haul line, fixed directly to the anchors, break down the lower anchor setting the haul bag free, clean, then set up your haul system on the weighted haul line?
In practice I have been fixing the haul line rigged to haul with a prussic below the hauler (on the load end). The prussic is backed up to a Munter mule yaking my weight on the rap and lowered onto the hauler when ready to haul. Is this not a good system?
Prod.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Prod,
That sounds pretty good. It's good if it's safe and you like it. Mine might be a bit simpler...
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Weld_it, I am going to say that would be Pass The Pitons Pete!?
Mark, Prod, Moof, PTPP, Kate et al: Great information on this thread!!
I've been using the Clove-Hitch method, but those days are over!!! I am onto the Continuous-Loop Method and I may even do some Far-End-Hauling just for kicks!!!
Thanks,
Thor
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Ah have no ah-dear. Ah have a you-ess passport, and am as red, what and blue as Uncle Frickin' Sam his-self.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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"Canadian Assassin" is the name chosen by the community for Pete. Apparently some certain partners objected to his use of a "double munter" knot to connect ropes together that they were jugging on, whose tails shrank form 2' to 6" as they jugged... The "Better Way". Pete still defends the knot, but strangely has never followed up on promises to post pictures of its gloriousness.
"Pass the Pitons Pete" is self assigned by Pete that he has largely been successful at using to replace the Canadian Assassin moniker.
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Moof, I thought it was because he knocked off El Cap routes at will...
Anywho, after 58 ascents of El Cap with 13 or so solo, I am guessing he has figured things out!!! Plus the guy will answer any strange big wall question in the world!!
Thor
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