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Peter
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 19, 2005 - 05:44pm PT
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After years of staying in Camp 4 I officially give up. It's always been a squalid joke of a place to camp but at least you weren't hassled, cited and ticketed as though you were trying to squat on the White House lawn.
Why exactly are the bathrooms so foul? Oh, it's over use, guess I'll wait until I get home to have a crap. Are the 200 campers staying at camp 4 really expected to use one fouled up sink to wash their dishes? Right.
Compare Camp 4 to the backpackers camp - which you're only supposed to use if you have a wilderness permit. Clean, serene, pretty. Not for climbers. Compare the impact of 6 climbers staying in Camp 4 against one monster RV, replete with satellite TV, in the Pines campgrounds. F*#k - make the RV'ers use the Camp 4 bathroom instead of sucking out their toilets for free, see how many of them stick around.
The Park Service has made it clear they they don't want climbers around. The bulletin board extolling the virtues of a "soon to be improved" camp 4 has disappeared. If you drive up from the Bay Area late a night intending to get a "site" you WILL receive a $95 ticket, even though you're just waiting for the registration booth to open.
Has anyone on the planet ever contemplated following the offically recommended practise of driving to Curry Village to park, taking a shuttle bus, which doesn't run at night, back to Camp 4 to register, which takes hours because you need photo ID etc. etc., then taking the bus back to the other end of the park to get your car? Why do you need photo ID anyway? Is there anywhere else where you need photo ID to book a $5 walk in campsite? If the Park Service is worried about terrorists in Camp 4 here's a newsflash - there's nothing left to destroy.
What would it take take to increase the size of the campsite and parking lot to accomodate the number of climbers normally visiting the valley? Would it cost as much as the impressive new stone guardrails running the length of 140 along the lower Merced?
And Werner, seeing as how the parking lot can't possibly accomodate even the climbers legally camping, why is 25% of the parking permanently dedicated to SAR staff personal vehicles, most of which have clearly not moved all summer? Hell, there's SAR vehicles there that look like they haven't moved in a decade - ticket them.
Link, you were doing a good job trying to be a liason but the truth is the Park Service wants less climbers visiting, not more, and they're going to make life as unpleasant as possible. In a decade of climbing at Tuolumne, Joshua Tree and Lake Tahoe I've never once had any tickets, hassles or problems but it's pretty much a guarantee in the Valley.
Your National Parks - Not For You.
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e$
Mountain climber
jackson, wy
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Oct 19, 2005 - 06:13pm PT
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I feel your pain, Peter... Camp 4 ain't what it used to be -- but I still do think it is a good thing. I have some confidence that people (particularly Link -- thanks!) are working to improve access for climbers. Perhaps, as a regular visitor/user, there is a way for you to contribute something to the cause (time/contacts/a few $)?
We're lucky that it even exists at all -- after the scare a few years back.
You asked: "Why do you need photo ID anyway? Is there anywhere else where you need photo ID to book a $5 walk in campsite?"
This has to do with the 2-week limit for staying in the Valley. Since Camp 4 allows individuals to reserve a spot, they need IDs for everyone. Group sites do require an ID, but only for the individual reserving a site.
Is it perfect? No. Fair? Probably not... but it's an attempt at doing the right thing.
Respectfully,
-eric
Note: I didn't stay at Camp 4 all summer because I got tired of the hassle, but I did find plenty of other great and legal places to stay that are not so far away (but not in the Valley).
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Peter
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2005 - 06:52pm PT
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eric
If Camp 4 was a pleasant place to camp I would happily pay $20 a night.
I've met Link several times and I like the guy, but the hassles at Camp 4 are worse than ever.
If you have a group of 6 friends they can each reserve a site at any other campground in Yosemite for two weeks (maybe I'm wrong and one week is the maximum) and only the person making the reservation each time will need ID. Then everyone can stay in the valley for at least 12 weeks a year (worse case 6 weeks) and only need Photo ID once - maybe. I've never had to show my ID at the Pines campgrounds and this is assuming the rangers are keeping some kind of database, which I doubt.
But Camp 4 - everyone needs ID. Climbers Without Official Papers Will Be Deported. I recommend a fake driver's license from Slovakia. Good luck training for your free ascent of the Nose - you have 7 days.
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 19, 2005 - 07:12pm PT
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I could not agree more. It blows. The only time that C4 is nice, is around Dec - Feb. when you've got the place to yourself and a nice 2 foot ice base keeping you out of the muck. they Don't check ID's then.
the solution is this, drive in - park in front of El Cap - hump it to the base and start climbing. Life on the wall is much better than life on the ground in yosemite.
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akclimber
Trad climber
Eagle River, AK
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Oct 19, 2005 - 07:20pm PT
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Keep in mind that it is climbers that screwed it up and made it into a pig sty.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 19, 2005 - 07:39pm PT
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Whiners. Do you got to Costco and expect a waiter at the food court?
"Camp 4 ain't what it used to be."
I don't think I was in camp 4 prior to ~1970, so my perspective is limited, but you're right, there's always something different. Just get with the current paradigm and take it from there. - I liked it better in the two bathrooms days, but WTF.
"But Camp 4 - everyone needs ID." Not Exactly, they ask for one. I spent my alloted time there last summer without one-didn't have it with me, still registered under my own name, this is A-0, save your breath for the climbing.
Yeah, camp 4 has it's drawbacks, but if you want to go climbing, there are bigger obstacles.
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toyon
climber
davis, ca
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Oct 19, 2005 - 08:37pm PT
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love it or hate it, camp 4 is the definition of squalor. I've taken to wondering out loud how great it might be if the AAC was given stewardship authority over the area, and transformed it into a climbers camp along the lines of GTCR. Think about it: hostel-style bunks, showers, an AAC library, and a *communal* eating area where you could rub shoulders with the best and worst of us.
And all for only $8/night!
(uh-oh, did i mention a price increase? here comes the backlash...)
-st
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Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:11pm PT
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I love the AAC idea, except that Camp 4 isn't in any official way a climbers campground, so the park isn't going to hand it over to a group that will exclude the Average Joe. Besides, Average Joe has more money and lawyers than the climbers do, so they'd just fight it and probably win.
The fact that the place is a sty is really what keeps it a climbers campground. Only climbers would put up with that kind of crap. A family of 4 from Iowa would just pack up the family truckster and drive out to the Days Inn in Mariposa as soon as they saw the bathroom.
And as far as the NPS goes, they've got to try to serve everyone, which, in a place like the Valley that sees so many visitors, is not easy. But wait! It gets better! Think the NPS was bad before? Its about to get worse when all the people who are in it for the right reasons have to quit because they can't get promoted:
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=598
I'll post this on another thread to avoid a hijack, if you want to respond, do it there. This thread is for camp 4 ranting only.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:19pm PT
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"I was told that it was reserved for emergency use only"
Maybe it's the site they reserve for those mountain rescue groups from the bay area? Hell, I don't know. I never go over there.
Then again WTF do I really know anyways? ..... not much!
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:30pm PT
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I love Camp 4.
The squaulor. The memories. The history. The dirt. The bulletin board. The view. The rangers. The SAR site. The slackline. The Falls trail. The boulders. The fake names.
I try at all costs to avoid it. But I love it.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:31pm PT
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My only observation is that the whole valley camping scene has become a huge hassle. C4 has, IMO, always been crowded and dirty. Now with the upper and lower river campsites gone after the 1997 floods, the remaining camp sites [collectively, 'the Pines'] are overcrowded and overused.
We stayed in Crane Flat this summer for two weeks. I never stayed there before. The weekdays were nice and quiet. And we had relatively quick access to the meadows. The weekends were filled with assorted shitheads that partied for much of the night and puked all over the bathrooms. Fortunately, there were a pile of porta-johns set up and we put a padlock on one of them and made it our own.
I may stay in Crane Flat for more of my Yos visits. It was nicer overall than staying in the valley. The only caveat was picking a level site. Many of the sites were tilted significantly. YMMV.
Another alternative, if you can get a backcountry permit and stay in the backpacker's camp [with the nice bathrooms and quiet surroundings], you can access the column very quickly. Not a bad alternative to C4. Tent camping is tent camping. Just leave your car in Curry Village and hump your stuff through North Pines.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2005 - 09:43pm PT
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Yes I agree Camp 4 is a hell hole. Even a deaf idiot like me had to get up in the middle of the night and hike up into the boulders at times to get some sleep because the noise was so bad.
But, there are rewards that transcend that ugly sh-it hole, joke for a campground that we see with our diluted naked eyes.
Have you seen and experienced those rewards?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 19, 2005 - 10:08pm PT
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" Keep in mind that it is climbers that screwed it up and made it into a pig sty."
This is pure, unfiltered BS. Although people cook, eat, party, and sleep there, that does not make a pig-sty. The lack of cleaning makes it so. Paying campers should not be required to clean the toilets.
For the money that a few camp sites in C4 generates each day, the PS should hire somebody to help take care of (clean) the camp. I think it's a black-eye to the park that they cannot take care of the place (isn't it a world heritage site or some such?)
I miss the days when the COTU used to be over in the parking lot that is now filled with trailors.
:- k
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Peter
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2005 - 10:20pm PT
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"There are rewards that transcend that ugly sh-it hole, joke for a campground that we see with our diluted naked eyes. Have you seen and experienced those rewards? "
Well, yeah - the valley is an incredibly beautiful place with unparalleled (sp?) climbing.
But there's no particular reason why camping there has to be so painful.
Next time you stay in a valley campground make sure to ask the ranger in the kiosk to clean the bathrooms if they don't meet your standards.
So who is (not) using the "emergency" campgrounds in North Pines? Someone's gotta know....
Werner - can you make more room in Camp 4 by moving the SAR vehicles?
Whre's the suggestion box?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2005 - 10:23pm PT
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Make room? I have no authority to do anything.
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Peter
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 19, 2005 - 10:30pm PT
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Who does?
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Oct 19, 2005 - 10:32pm PT
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"Next time you stay in a valley campground make sure to ask the ranger in the kiosk to clean the bathrooms if they don't meet your standards."
Although this sounds a bit tounge-in-cheek, I think the idea is not far off the mark. Of course a Ranger is not going to clean the bathrooms, it certainly isn't in their job description. But I don't think it would be a bad thing to ask the Kiosk attendant about the cleaning schedule, and then tell them why you're asking. If enough folks asked, perhaps they'd get wind of the problem...
:- k
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Dragon with Matches
climber
Bamboo Grove
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Oct 19, 2005 - 11:05pm PT
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I consider it a kind of a game designed to weed out those who don't really want to be there.
If you want to revel in the amazing history of the place, hang in the company of an incredibly international group of super-psyched climbers, and enjoy a bit of a buffer away from the tourist hordes, you've got to put up with some bureaucratic crap. Lots of benefits there, and lots of crap. Kinda like France, but different.
Personally, I find it pretty magical place to be.
As an aside, Link's incredible work in bridging the gap between two very disparate groups warrants him a place in climbing history. Things could be better, it's tempting to say... but things could easily be much, much worse.
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Oct 19, 2005 - 11:22pm PT
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I have not "stayed" in camp 4 in years. Like before 1985. Even then it was the middle of winter. I have found it to be much more peaceful to camp in other location both in and out of the park.
Everybody who stated that C4 did not become a pile on its own, are correct. We made it that way,
I like the idea of asking the Rangers to clean up the bathrooms, even if I am not staying in C4, I am going to ask.
Great post Peter. K-man, jaybro, Blinny and everybody else, you got it right. Like you I don't have the solution, but if you pay the $'s you should get the service.
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DixieGal
Trad climber
NC
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Oct 20, 2005 - 12:09am PT
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What sucks about Camp 4 are the rangers and the moronic
regulations. It is very difficult to conform to all the
stupid rules, so I just gave up and took my chances. I
won't share all my strategies for breaking the laws and
getting away with it, but I will say that a good form
of protest is to pitch your portaledge ten feet above
ground on a wall and tell the rangers to eat sh#t.
If I had my way, I'd close the Ahwahnee hotel, eliminate
about 90% of the NPS presence in the valley, and return
the place to some semblance of wilderness. As a foreigner
from India with no strong prior biases, I was struck by
the unfriendly demeanour of the rangers - who seem to
arrogate to themselves the power of God almighty. I feel
that the NPS leadership is ultimately to blame. Yosemite
is a cash cow for certain people, and these people have
no concern for the values of your pioneer naturalist, John
Muir. I don't know whether or not the NPS makes a lot of
money from Yosemite, but the NPS is really messing up one
of the premier climbing destinations on this planet.
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